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  #1  
Old 12-02-2004
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I am in Fat City!

Just had all 10 NASCAR Race for the Cup cars and drivers pull up in a line and park right outside my window on Park Ave. Incredible sight. Every window in the buildings nearby if full of faces and the street was jammed with people. Great sight. Cars are still there right now. Nice and loud when they pulled up.
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Old 12-02-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Lunch time driver's prayer meeting at St. Bart's no doubt.
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Old 12-02-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

They wound up in the city by accident, and are now stuck because the cops won't let them turn left on major cross streets till after rush hour. They don't know how to turn right!
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Old 12-02-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

The cars are leaving now. And thus ends the most productive time spent by me in weeks.
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Old 12-02-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Bloody country hicks made me get stuck in traffic for 20 minutes this afternoon. The hysterical sight of all of those Nascar fans wearing day-glo bright orange Jeff Gordon jackets was entertaining enough to make the time barely passable, though.
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Old 12-02-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Cars still here. looks like they only took away one car. Amazing seat when you look at them up close. They wrap around their heads alomst.

Thinking of become more of a NASCAR fan. It would be pretty fun to have the Team Jucy crowd banging cars around a race track at speed. Most of us get the hang of hitting each other. Be nice to keep on racing afterwards.
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Old 12-02-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

For banging and racing... you should have been at the Turkey Day Shootout at F1 Boston!


I think I won the "most time in the penalty box award"!

Still awaiting Donald's writeup... hello? Donald?
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Old 12-02-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

This thing has windows, and an engine in the front. I think I can handle it...
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Old 12-03-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

This is a racing site. Please find somewhere else to post discussions about NASCAR.
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Old 12-07-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Quote:
Originally Posted by macdod
This is a racing site. Please find somewhere else to post discussions about NASCAR.
even with this (rather shabby) pic mod?

please don't flame me, if you must, it was Dalyduo's idea.....
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Old 12-07-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Sweeeeeeeet. Now we are talking!

Donald, You and I need to see if they need testers for this thing. It has beer AND the Red Sox on it. We can do this.
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Old 12-07-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

When will you guys see the light. NASCAR is the best racing in the world. Nothing else even comes close. It isn't easy, it isn't rigged, and they actually have to race. It's time to let go of the anger...
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Old 12-07-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Sexy
When will you guys see the light. NASCAR is the best racing in the world. Nothing else even comes close. It isn't easy, it isn't rigged, and they actually have to race. It's time to let go of the anger...
The anger, if you can call it that, stems from the whole 'sideshow' that ridicules the core values we hold for 'motor racing'. I've said it before, NASCAR has become like the WWF.

But you're right, the racing part of it is great. The talent there is huge. But again, it's become a show, and a show that I just can't stand to watch. I can't watch it because they make every race a reality TV episode, with stupid characters, dumb story lines and a bunch of super-annoying announcers. If they'd broadcast the races with guys like David Hobbs and Steve Matchett doing color (or no one at all), and if they'd leave out everything other than the racing, I'd watch every race and I'd become a huge fan. Til then, I'll stick to F1 and its puritanical devotion to Motor Sport excellence, no matter how boring it can sometimes be.

Last edited by sydude; 12-07-2004 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 12-07-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Yes... Doug has outed me, so I'll confess :-)

I spawned the notion of turning Little E's hot rod into a Red Sox Nation Nascar.

When Donald harshly dismissed both Jim's thread and Nascar with two short sentances, I wanted to visually challenge his dismissal by blending the Sox with Nascar in a way he'd probably not considered but could be a reality sooner than he might think. (The Yankees already sponsor a drag racing team and a Busch team)

Where Doug was concerned about being misunderstood, I was egging him on to push the fantasy sponsorship envelope. We weren't dissing the Sox or Nascar, just asking Donald to reconsider a rather extreme position.
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Old 12-07-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Sy,

I think the human backstories of crew, drivers and families that the Nascar producers now cultivated each week are very consciously put there to attract a wider fan base in age and gender.

None of that demographic is pointing at the hard core TJR "motor racing" fan base. Nascar figured out a long time ago that family entertainment was their future and they cater to that. They now have Magic Johnson consulting with them as they try to attract more minorities.

They've been brilliant in their ability to expand and educate their fan base.
For the hard core there is a direct-tv (and digital cable) package that allows you to select camera angles and in car cameras and listen to radio communications during the event.

With F1 you are talking about the familiarity, knowlege base (racing experience) and comfort level that you feel with Hobbs and company that you can't put a price tag on. Many of the Nascar announcers are capable of much more informed narratives but they are now trained to explain things to the larger, lower common denominator of inexperienced fans all the time.

Nascar is so popular because it resonates with a larger percentage of the country. Many times more than any other form of motor racing
It's big business and they keep finding ways to grow the audience and keep them entertained. It just keeps getting harder and harder for the hard core to get close and see whats going on

It's easy to guess that 15 years from now Nascar will still be evolving and growing. It's hard to say what F1 will be up to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sydude
The anger, if you can call it that, stems from the whole 'sideshow' that ridicules the core values we hold for 'motor racing'. I've said it before, NASCAR has become like the WWF.

But you're right, the racing part of it is great. The talent there is huge. But again, it's become a show, and a show that I just can't stand to watch. I can't watch it because they make every race a reality TV episode, with stupid characters, dumb story lines and a bunch of super-annoying announcers. If they'd broadcast the races with guys like David Hobbs and Steve Matchett doing color (or no one at all), and if they'd leave out everything other than the racing, I'd watch every race and I'd become a huge fan. Til then, I'll stick to F1 and its puritanical devotion to Motor Sport excellence, no matter how boring it can sometimes be.

Last edited by dalyduo; 12-08-2004 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 12-07-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Yes, DD, you're absolutely right, and now I've seen the light.

Not.

I never said that it sucks and they should shut it down. I just said it's not real racing anymore, and that it's become a joke. Just because 40 Million Americans (or whatever number) watch NASCAR, and growing, doesn't make it real racing. It's become pure entertainment for the masses. And when I mean masses, I mean MASSes. You know - fat, beer swillin'...

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Old 12-07-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

as opposed to...

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Old 12-08-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

I am with Spencer on this one. Car for car, the best racing we got.
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Old 12-08-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Sy,

F1 is snob appeal to a wealthy elitist crowd.

Nascar is mass appeal to a church going blue collar crowd.

F1 technology is expensive high tech

Nascar technology is intentionally low tech

The differences make it easy for either camp to ridicule the other.

I love watching F1 but we don't see enough competition and great battles like that wonderful Villenueve clip Doug posted this week.

Nascar is designed in a way to create drama and battles each week. It may feel overly hyped but the on track strategy and competition is real.

I enjoy both kinds of racing for different reasons.
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Old 12-08-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

I choose wealthy elitist.
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Old 12-08-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

The "wealthy elitist" title was to point out how easy it is to tag and dismiss any fan base or group if that's your goal. Calling F1 "wealthy elitists" or Nascar fans "rednecks" doesn't serve either group and polarizes people.

You can praise F1 for its high tech exotica (including the pit girls) or damn them for being obscenely expensive and irrelevant to all but a few.

You can praise Nascar for its low tech, highly competitive close quarters racing, or damn them for being overly manipulative in marketing for mass appeal.

What's the point?

I suppose dissing forms outside of your current racing passion is what forums like this thrive on and exist for. (And the illustrative pictures can be highly entertaining. :-)

But the more interesting question is what can be learned from the race series you're not devoted to or a fan of, to add value to the one you are devoted to. To answer that question you have to look beyond the stereotype and validate their achievements.

If you love racing, then better racing at every level should be the point and is certainly the more powerful position to come from. (Though in most cases not as much fun as trash talking... :-)

Jeez, someone seems to have slipped that soapbox under my loafers again... Sorry about that.
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Old 12-09-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

What no bids for the quarter mile?
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Old 12-09-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

I'm a fan of both F1 and Nascar, especially when Nascar does road courses. There's nothing like seeing those cars hustled around the bus stop/inner loop at the Glen.
The NHRA is good fun too, nothing beats a John Force interview or seeing Angelle Savoie with her hair blowing in the wind as she hustles down the 1/4 mile on her bike.
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Old 12-09-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Tom, doubt you've been around long enough to have seen this evidence of how far we all go to reach out and get along.

(FYI. Capps took a commanding lead at the green flag and then was never heard from again, literally. They're resigned to extricating his car from the marsh at the end of the LRP escape road in the spring when, it is hoped, satellite photo's will reveal its final resting place. :-)
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Old 12-09-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

What a convinient time for a thread with this subject to spring up. Right now for my English class I'm working on a year-long research paper, and the topic I have pulled up was to answer the question "Why isn't Formula 1 as popular in the United States as it is in the rest of the world, especially Europe?"

I can't tell you from a neutral perspective which is better, and Pat is absolutely right, there isn't much point. NASCAR and Formula 1 cater to vastly different crowds and depending on which crowd you are in one is the most glorious sport in the world and everyone who likes the other is a redneck or jealous of thier success or whatever.
Or if you're truly obsessed with speed and competition you can see through the faults on both sides and don't care how you get your fix.
Anyways I suppose I'm trying to answer a question that noone here has asked, but I think , Sy, the very reason you state for loathing NASCAR is one reason why it's popularity has grown exponentially in the past few years. If you look at what else Americans watch on TV I think you'll find that NASCAR has become the ultimate reality show. Throw that into a mix of things Americans are already fascinated by and attracted to, like insane amounts of raw power and almost nieve patriotism (NASCAR fans correct be if I'm wrong but aren't those new Toyotas actually made in the US?) and it's no wonder why NASCAR is growing.

Formula 1 on the other hand is going down a much different road. I haven't been to Europe often enough to get to know the culture in depth and I probably should be doing more research on this part than the racing ( ), but if you look at other things around Europe you can begin to see trends developing. If you look at Europe's obsession with soccer and compare it to ours with football there's an almost identical relationship. While football teams basically try to pound eachother into submission, soccer players generally try to pass, lob, chip and do fancy stuff with thier feet to sort of outsmart the other team.

Formula 1 parallels that, and instead of declaring "rubbin' is racin'" and turning the season into a soap opera, they talk about how the cars resemble fighter jets more than cars and try to impress with mind-numbing performance rather than .3' margins-of-victory.

Where my anger toward NASCAR comes from, from an aspiring professional road racer's point of view, is I see NASCAR as a juggernaut pulling away all the potential sponsors. Why pay $600k for a kid racing in Toyota Atlantics (assuming I make it that far... ) when the only people who watch it are those at the track and people watching SPEED reruns at 2 A.M. when they could pay the same amount for a kid in the Busch League and have thier company's name on SPEED, ABC, and FOX nearly every evening? Not to mention the logo can be bigger on a hood than on a side pod or engine cover.

So I suppose in the end it just comes down to "to each his own," "one man's trash is another man's treasure" etc. etc.

What do you guys think about Champ Cars? I haven't been able to see many races this year but I've been to a couple in the past and follow it fairly regularly, and it seems they combine the sophistication and performance of Formula 1 with the fan friendly athmosphere of NASCAR.

You guys are a breath of fresh air from the kids at my school. All they ever talk about is football basketball and baseball.
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Old 12-11-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

It amazes me how so many race savy people here overlook NASCAR and it's brilliance while the dumb rednecks of this country flock to it and will never appreciate it. According to people here NASCAR is some sort of WWF soap opera where technology is voided and the only way to win is to crash others out. None of the above is true.

First, when was the last time in NASCAR Nextel Cup where there was a position change in which the overtaking driver ran the other off the road. Compare this seasons number in NASCAR (0 that I can think of but ) to the FDNC. Grand Am's second round from Homestead is the only real beating and banging I can think of and it took place on a road course between 2 ex F1 drivers.

Second, technology in NASCAR is AS ADVANCED AS F1. There is nothing low tech about NASCAR! Just like F1 the rules determine the body, engine and suspension requirements and the teams develop within these rules the best car they can. The simulations technology in NASCAR is not only as advanced but it is more important. Data acc in testing is just as elaborate. The NASCAR teams have to have a better understanding of the car than F1 teams do. When was the last time an F1 team came down the pit lane, along with 30 others on the lead lap, and had to figure out what pressures to run to have the car working best over the final 12 laps (not 42 like usual) as the sun start to set and the track gets cooler. NEVER. With 12 laps to go the F1 race would have been over 70 laps ago (if not already over when the car maker's board of directors met during the off season). Wining in NASCAR is all about race day decisions and technology equal to what is used in F1 is behind those decisions.

And in NASCAR winning is important. F1 it is not. There is no need to win in F1. Ferrari has proven that. In NASCAR if you are not competitive you are in trouble, and maybe out of business. In F1 if you are not competitive you are not Ferrari. The need to win is really what drives technology in racing and NASCAR is the only series where winning is a must. (someone will mention Jag i'm sure)

But what really annoys me the low tech name calling. Who cares? Racing is a sport not a ****in science fair! Soccer balls are low tech, footballs are low tech. Why is this even an issue?

Last time I checked a $75000 NNC engine made power similar to a $2 million F1 engine. If you want to race 800hp engines why spend $2 mil when $75k can do the trick? Does it help to level the playing feild???

And how is this rigged? Since the Dale Earnhardt "lets say the seat belt broke casue we were too dumb to mandate the HANS" what has been staged? Daytona July '01? DEI has always had good plate cars. Debris on the race track. They showed it on Fox and NBC everytime in '04. (trust me I watched) It is necessary for fan safety to go yellow when debris is on the track. If NNC was rigged Kurt Busch would not be champion. Dale Jr. would not have finished 4th, and every sponsor who didn't benefit would cry foul.

Soap opera? OK, I admit there is a bit of it, but this is a result of it's success. With more national interest and drivers as household names who can blame the press for covering the stories. We have E! new daily for movie and Limbaugh and John Stewart for Politicians, so why not a media to cover NASCAR personalities. Keep in mind that very little of this comes from NASCAR and most comes from sponsors (can you blame them?) and media covering the sport.

So to recap:

NASCAR is NOT:

Fender banging
Low Tech
Full of rednecks (althought many of the fans are)
Rigged
Easy
Easy to predict
Primarily a science fair project

NASCAR IS

A sport (F1 drivers are athletes, so are Ballerinas, neither are a sport in my opinion but both are great shows)
A sport where the outcome is primarily determined on raceday
The only form of racing that gets my pulse racing while I watch
The only racing where I find myself trying to guess what the crew cheif will do (pit-two-four)
Successful
Providing a return for sponsors
Great to see in person
A racing nut's savior in a world where other forms of racing just can't get it right
My favorite sport so stop bashing it and start placing your bets for the 2005 NNC.
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  #27  
Old 12-11-2004
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Lightbulb Re: I am in Fat City!

Got to do something about your avatar Big Sexy, a Porsche just doesn't seem to fit. Here are some choices.....
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  #28  
Old 12-11-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!


Did you know that NASCAR drivers are all distant relatives of The Wicked Witch of the West: 'What a world; what a world'











Wicked Witch of the West: Ahhahahaha...Well! Ring around the rosy a pocket full of -- spears. Thought you'd be pretty foxy, didn't ya? Well, the last to go will see the first three go before her. Hahaha. And her mangy little dog, too.



How about a little fire Scarecrow? [setting the Scarecrow aflame]

Ahhahaha...



Scarecrow: Oh...oh...oh...it's burning...oh, oh....



[Dorothy douses the Wicked Witch with water]





Wicked Witch of the West: Ahhhhhhhhhhh!!! You cursed brat!



Look what you've done!! I'm melting, melting.



Ohhhhh, what a world, what a world.



Who what have thought that some little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness.





OHHHHHHH!!! NO!!! I'm going...ohhhhhhh..ohhhhhhhhhhhhh....



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  #29  
Old 12-11-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

What a world What a world... Spencer makes a compelling case for NASCAR, and MacDod cracks up right in front of our eyes!
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Old 12-11-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJAmok
What a world What a world... Spencer makes a compelling case for NASCAR, and MacDod cracks up right in front of our eyes!
LOL!

.........I don't get the WWOTW reference though

and it's "a pocket full of spinners" maybe that's it?

Wicked Witch of the West Bend?


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Old 12-11-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

AMOK and CDH - The use of helmets doesn't seem to have been effective in either of your cases.

The reference (however subtle) to the land of Oz and the Wicked Witch is the fact that NASCAR drivers don't go out in the rain.

They're afraid of getting all wet.

Tough athletes? - give me a damn brake.

And idiots to boot, they drive around NYC in the dark in cars with no headlights. Geez.

Here's the bottom line difference between NASCAR and F1. Bernie vs. Bill France Jr.
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Old 12-11-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Quote:
Originally Posted by macdod
AMOK and CDH - The use of helmets doesn't seem to have been effective in either of your cases.

The reference (however subtle) to the land of Oz and the Wicked Witch is the fact that NASCAR drivers don't go out in the rain.

They're afraid of getting all wet.

Tough athletes? - give me a damn brake.
Very subtle and funny.....LOL

Is your give me a BRAKE an intentional typo? Maybe you should trade in your helmet too....


Last edited by cdh; 12-11-2004 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 12-11-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Quote:
Originally Posted by macdod
As for my reference to "a brake" regarding NASCAR

Ya think maybe that was intentional?
Do Ya?
shhhhhhhhhh stop shouting
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  #34  
Old 12-11-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

CDH

Per your request for me to stop shouting...

EDITED RESPONSE
As for my reference to "a brake" regarding NASCAR


Ya think maybe that was intentional?
Do Ya?


Gee, I never thought of that.

Me?

Clever?
__________________
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  #35  
Old 12-12-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcraige
Just had all 10 NASCAR Race for the Cup cars and drivers pull up in a line and park right outside my window on Park Ave. Incredible sight. Every window in the buildings nearby if full of faces and the street was jammed with people. Great sight. Cars are still there right now. Nice and loud when they pulled up.
hi jcraige, can you tell me when the nascars have the race in New York? And why is New York called fat city? I do not know much about the nascar racing.

ciao, nuvo
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  #36  
Old 12-13-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

(Assuming Nuvo isn't Nick Nick's latest European incarnation... :-)

Nascar doesn't race in New York City; they hold an awards dinner at the end of the season to crown their series champion. They do publicity appearances in the city leading up to that dinner and this year one of those events was having the top ten drivers drive their racecars a few blocks on the streets of New York from the banquet hotel to the NASCAR corporate offices. Jcraig’s office is near the corporate office so he saw them pull up.

Being in "Fat City" is not a reference to the city at all. It is simply a term that indicates falling into good fortune. The phrase would be meaningless to someone whose first language is not English. Being a NASCAR fan, it was quite extraordinary and jcraige's good fortune (fat city) to have all top 10 drivers pull up on the street below his office window in their race cars!

On a different note:

Big Sexy... wanted to clarify that my referral to NASCAR being low tech was not a slight but I do think a reality. I was referring to the cost choices made by the series to keep it affordable for sponsors. The absence of exotic materials, turbo or fuel injected engines; real time data acquisition and electronic car adjustments during races etc. are excluded to make it affordable. As in any series those who do the most development (and spend the most) within the rules parameters usually wind up on top. They are low tech, but very highly developed within the low-tech restrictions. (Just the electronic tracking and testing of shocks they all use now is amazing.) They are absolutely high tech in a low-tech rulebook.

The close fast racing I saw while attending my first Busch North Series event at Lime Rock a few years back pleasantly surprised me. I expected a demo derby and what I saw could not have been farther from that. The cars were generally well prepared and the drivers were quick and skillful. Given the size of the cars and margin for error around LRP, there was lots of exciting action. Fewer crashes and bumping than you'd see in many good series. (If you want to see bumping and banging, watch one of the SCCA miata events!) This is one of the feeder series for bigger and better things within NASCAR so the level of preparation and skill is well above average. Some of the fans lived up to expectations but their devotion could not be questioned. When the green flags dropped, the thunder of engines and roar of those fans was hair raising. It was great racing and easy to see why people love it.

David Coulthard made a telling comment when asked what he thought of NASCAR racing between heats at the ROC. He said that he'd seen video of cars running 2 and 3 wide, drafting each other while sliding through high speed corners just inches apart and wondered what that experience was like? It was clear from the tone of his voice and the expression on his face that he respected and found it impressive. Clearly in F1 there is nothing that approaches that kind of racing experience, so to him it looked challenging and exciting.

It all depends on your perspective.

Last edited by dalyduo; 12-13-2004 at 11:13 AM.
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  #37  
Old 12-13-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

So, other than BigSexy, I guess none of you will be popping by my apartment to watch ESPN's premier of "3" which I Tivo'd....

Anyone?, Anyone?, Bueller?, Anyone?

DalyDuo, thanks for posting the answers to Nuvo's questions.
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  #38  
Old 12-13-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

i cant take it any longer.i have to admit i like NASCAR.i have been to the shrink and he said it was nothing serious.and would i like to see a race from his box.1 in talladaga 1 in daytona. jim put the beer on ice i am on my way


you will know me by the big 8 shaved on my back
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  #39  
Old 12-13-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcraige
Anyone?, Anyone?, Bueller?, Anyone?
He's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl who saw Ferris pass-out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.
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  #40  
Old 12-13-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Hanging with Sid??? Man, this is good. The fridge is stocked and the pizza is ordered.

It will be a whole night of "Hey, pull my finger".

I have died and gone to Heaven!!!!

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  #41  
Old 12-13-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

One might call it Fat City! And so, we are back were we began!
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  #42  
Old 12-13-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sydude
He's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl who saw Ferris pass-out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.
Secretly, deep down, you wish we were back in the 80's...
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Old 12-14-2004
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Re: I am in Fat City!

jim i am only there for the beer and pizza. you will have to pull your own finger
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