Gear Talk: Books in Addition to "Going Faster!"

[WatertownNewbie]

Hi All. I'm new to this site, and this is my first posting.

So ... in July my wife and I drove up to Lime Rock to watch the Saturday races in the Eastern Series. I'm chatting with the flag guy in Turn 1, and some guys wearing TJR hats spot my wife and strike up a conversation. "Are you here to watch someone?", they ask. "No, my husband is taking the 3-day course in a couple of weeks, and we came to see what it's all about." "Oh", they advise, "don't let him take the course. He'll get hooked and want to race!"

Having taken the course in late July, I'm now feeling the hook a bit, primarily from the joy of gaining an understanding of how to make a car go faster through corners. After taking the course, I got a copy of Going Faster!, which I have now gone through. Thinking back over my experiences during the 3-Day was useful, and I could relate to several of the "Here's what beginners tend to do" portions as well as the explanations of various driving techniques. I also enjoyed watching the ALMS races from Road America last Sunday (especially the camera that showed the footwork in one of the cars).

My question for this thread is: Aside from Going Faster!, what books would be beneficial to a beginning road course driver? I realize that there is no substitute for seat time, but I also tend to mull things over, and reading a good discussion (such as the braking and entering sections) is enlightening.

Any recommendations for books on driving technique?

P.S. Thanks to all who posted in reply to Kasey's request for info on outfitting from head to toe. If he had not asked, I would have.

[MJAmok]

There is only one book that matters.

Your CHECK book.

[sydude]

Originally Posted by WatertownNewbie

I'm chatting with the flag guy in Turn 1, and some guys wearing TJR hats spot my wife and strike up a conversation. "Are you here to watch someone?", they ask. "No, my husband is taking the 3-day course in a couple of weeks, and we came to see what it's all about." "Oh", they advise, "don't let him take the course. He'll get hooked and want to race!"

I think that might have been me! But I don't remember telling her not to let you take it. Whatever I said, I guess you still did it. Congrats on taking the first step, and we look forward to seeing you at your first (and hopefully many more) race weekends.

Back to books... First of all, you're very wise to study the art and science of racing. Understanding physics and the soft sciences will prove to be priceless to you, and will provide you with the tools you need to excel in the sport - and these are tools that you can't buy anywhere. You'll quickly find that true speed comes from the mind (and the heart), and that physical skill and/or bravery (read: balls) will only take you so far.

So, in addition to Going Faster, I suggest you buy Ross Bentley's 'Speed Secrets' (#1 & #2), Carrol Smith's 'Drive to Win', and possibly Piero Taruffi's 'Technique of Motor Racing'. There's more than enough theory in these to tide you over till you get more experience behind the wheel. After you complete your Advanced 2-day and a couple of race weekends, you can move onto others, which will be a mix of physics (theory) and mental/physical training.

Here's the link to my Amazon list, which has the links to the books mentioned above, plus the others I recommend for more advanced levels.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...701065-8824830

Please let us know what you think of them.

Sy

[arig]

so that IS your list. somehow i came upon that list the other day and i wasn't sure

[sydude]

Yup, that's me. BTW - I just changed the last item on the list to Racecar Engineering (the Magazine). I had 'Inside the Mind of the GP driver' book in there originally only because I really don't like any of the other racing books out there, and I needed to get a full 10 items. I haven't even read it ( I did buy it - but it's sitting in that pile over there..) - it was recommended by a fellow racer who knows his stuff, so I put it on the list. Maybe it will come back to the list.

But RE mag is awesome, and if anything it could rank higher than 10th. Zinio has an online version of it for more than 50% off--

http://www.zinio.com/offer?issn=0961...zsports&ns=zno

[birkmama]

Originally Posted by sydude

Yup, that's me. BTW - I just changed the last item on the list to Racecar Engineering (the Magazine). I had 'Inside the Mind of the GP driver' book in there originally only because I really don't like any of the other racing books out there, and I needed to get a full 10 items. I haven't even read it ( I did buy it - but it's sitting in that pile over there..) - it was recommended by a fellow racer who knows his stuff, so I put it on the list. Maybe it will come back to the list.
http://www.zinio.com/offer?issn=0961...zsports&ns=zno

Said racer is struggling to get through inside the mind of the gp driver. Unfortunately after a great start this book proves to lack structure and relevance for your own racing. It is more of a collection of interviews mostly with some of the less impressive F1 drivers.

[birkmama]

Originally Posted by MJAmok

There is only one book that matters.

Your CHECK book.

Why am I not surprised??
I believe MJ is right. He mostly is. I personally do not know your check book and how literate you are with it, but he seems to.
But it seems evident, that check books and speed are correlating. The development of this year's SBRC supports the hypothesis in a very illustrative way.

[MJAmok]

Ouch. That hurt.

[MJAmok]

So, it seems that once again I have inadvertantly offended one or more of you. Of course, I don't mind when I do that on purpose, but this time it was strictly by accident.

The question was "what books would be beneficial to a beginning road course driver?"

My reply about the checkbook was meant to be both humorous and a bit of commentary. We could make a long list of talented people that want to be racing but can't afford it, as well as a list of those that shouldn't be racing but are because they can afford it.

Oh well... I'll shut up now. See you in a month...

[cdh]

this thread reminded me of a modification I did to the old fd.com grraphic a while back (but thought it too tasteless to post)...... sorry mja kidding!!!

[Gerardo]

That is an all-time classic Photoshop mod, Doug!

[cdh]

Originally Posted by Gerardo

That is an all-time classic Photoshop mod, Doug!

ask Sy to show you his version sometime

Have fun in Germany!

.

[kwlorentzen]

Originally Posted by MJAmok

So, it seems that once again I have inadvertantly offended one or more of you. Of course, I don't mind when I do that on purpose, but this time it was strictly by accident.

The question was "what books would be beneficial to a beginning road course driver?"

My reply about the checkbook was meant to be both humorous and a bit of commentary. We could make a long list of talented people that want to be racing but can't afford it, as well as a list of those that shouldn't be racing but are because they can afford it.

Oh well... I'll shut up now. See you in a month...

If the "check book" wasn't such a big part of going faster, you'ld be seeing me more often Oh, well! I might see you fellas at LRP in october.

[OLDMAN]

My reply about the checkbook was meant to be both humorous and a bit of commentary. We could make a long list of talented people that want to be racing but can't afford it, as well as a list of those that shouldn't be racing but are because they can afford it.

If you're refering to skippy racers keep in mind that even the big fish are swimming in a very small pond. Just because I do not have the talent of a Paul T. or RHR (or you) it should not keep me (or those of similar talent) from testing my abilities and having some fun at the same time.

Where do you draw the line on who should be racing?

OLDMAN

[MJAmok]

I was referring to dangerous, not un-talented.

[OLDMAN]

Double ouch!

OLDMAN

[badgersid]

MIKE MIKE MIKE Dont apoligize if there skin is that thin maybe they shouldn't be on this site.I try to offend as many people as i can so that they learn how to deal with adversity. I feel like that is a a public service.

NOW!ALL YOU CRYING WHINEING BABIE'S SHUT UP AND GIVE ME YOUR MONEY.

(READ) I LOVE YOU GUY'S

[WatertownNewbie]

Originally Posted by sydude

I think that might have been me! But I don't remember telling her not to let you take it. Whatever I said, I guess you still did it. Congrats on taking the first step, and we look forward to seeing you at your first (and hopefully many more) race weekends.

I figured that someone would 'fess up to being the person who spoke to my wife!

Originally Posted by sydude

Back to books... First of all, you're very wise to study the art and science of racing. Understanding physics and the soft sciences will prove to be priceless to you, and will provide you with the tools you need to excel in the sport - and these are tools that you can't buy anywhere. You'll quickly find that true speed comes from the mind (and the heart), and that physical skill and/or bravery (read: balls) will only take you so far.

Thanks for this comment. It is nice to hear from someone experienced that skill and technique matter so much and that it is not just about mashing on the accelerator.

Originally Posted by sydude

So, in addition to Going Faster, I suggest you buy Ross Bentley's 'Speed Secrets' (#1 & #2), Carrol Smith's 'Drive to Win', and possibly Piero Taruffi's 'Technique of Motor Racing'. There's more than enough theory in these to tide you over till you get more experience behind the wheel. After you complete your Advanced 2-day and a couple of race weekends, you can move onto others, which will be a mix of physics (theory) and mental/physical training.

Please let us know what you think of them.

I ordered the Bentley and Smith books from Amazon. For the Taruffi book, I went to the Bentley Publishers site, where I also found a nice dvd on Lime Rock Park.

Nothing has arrived yet, but I'll give you my thoughts when I have a chance to go through the books (and watch the dvd).

As for educational and instructive things, I have found the TJR collection of videos to be a good source of examples of what can occur during a Skippy race and how to deal with various situations. The Lombardi race in the rain taught me more about the wet line at LRP than the little bit of discussion about that topic during the 3-day course.

Lastly, Sy, thanks for the warm welcome to TJR. I am looking forward to meeting you sometime.

[OLDMAN]

Hey Sid:
Vescere bracis meis!

Mike:
The answer to your question is "I hope not". But I realize that driving talent is very relative.

OLDMAN

[rhpearson]

Originally Posted by badgersid

NOW!ALL YOU CRYING WHINEING BABIE'S SHUT UP AND GIVE ME YOUR MONEY.

Hmmm... I want to use that the next time I am out of work at length

But I think there is a difference between SBRS and what has been discussed here about drivers with rich checkbooks driving perhaps where they would not be if Talent were the only relevant factor.

I think it is fair to say that SBRS is nicely arranged, from what I see at least, to let people take it first for fun and if they want to get racier, they have a move up step from Sportsman to Championship, and then on to SBNC or Masters NC.

If I had the money to go racing, after being around you guys, I would surely be joining the Skippy ranks.

[kwlorentzen]

Originally Posted by kwlorentzen

If the "check book" wasn't such a big part of going faster, you'ld be seeing me more often Oh, well! I might see you fellas at LRP in october.

I retract my statement about the "Check Book" I now realize that there are lots of folks who wish to race more but cannot because of their finantial situation. I apologize for harping on finances and won't bring it up again.

On another note, I WILL be at Lime Rock in October. See you all there!

[WatertownNewbie]

Originally Posted by sydude

Here's the link to my Amazon list, which has the links to the books mentioned above, plus the others I recommend for more advanced levels. Please let us know what you think of them.

So far, two down (the Bentley books) and two to go (Smith and Taruffi). Neither of the Bentley books reached the overall level of Going Faster!, but there were several portions that were very insightful.

For example, Bentley's comment that if you feel like you are riding on rails then you are going too slow was great. His discussion of tires and slippage is strong.

On the other hand, I found myself wanting examples for some of his other generalities. Such as, he mentions that you can get a lot of feedback on the traction from the steering wheel. I can see how you can sense the traction from the direction the car is going relative to the wheel, the feeling of sliding, or the sound of the tires, but what exactly does he mean by using the steering wheel itself to sense the traction? (And I do not think that he means the direction that you are pointing the wheel, although maybe that is what he means.)

I am not quibbling with the Bentley books, however, and I will surely re-read them both again. I'm looking forward to the Smith and Taruffi books. In the meantime, I am greatly enjoying Rich Taylor's book on the history of LRP, which he inscribed at the Vintage Festival on Labor Day at LRP. (My wife asked me, with respect to what Rich wrote in the inscription, "What does it mean -- 'Never Lift!'?".)

[Charlie25]

If you pay attention to the steering wheel it can tell you everything you want to know about front end grip. Like if the wheel vibrates on the straight you may have flatspots. One of the key things I've noticed is that when one or both of the front wheels are locked the steering will get very light and it's promting you to modulate the brake pedal.

Hope this clears things up a little.

[WatertownNewbie]

Thanks for this tidbit. That explains something about straights, but let's suppose I'm heading into West Bend at LRP and want to keep my momentum going. What kind of signals will I get from the steering wheel regarding my traction as I head into and through the turn?

[birkmama]

Ross writes that you will never be fast without understanding tires. I believe he is very right. In order to maximize speed you will need to maximize cornering power. There is a tire specific slip angle which will let you transmit maximum lateral forces. Finding this particular angle is a tough taks and has to be done in infinitely small intervall several times during cornering.

The direction of the steering wheel and even more the tire force that is linear to the steering wheel force will tell you how closely you are iterating the peak performance.

So in your example in Westbend you will have to find out by smallest adjustments were the peak performance is. That does not mean sawing on the wheel but just small corrections and iterations always with the target of opening the your hands as soon as possible in order to maximize acceleratoin.

There are number of interesting books about suspension and vehicle dynamics that dig deep into these aspects, however they are qiute pricey and go too deep for my horizon. But if you are inclined maybe you would like to give them a shot (Tires, Suspension hadling e.g.)

[PT Cruiser]

Originally Posted by WatertownNewbie

On the other hand, I found myself wanting examples for some of his other generalities. Such as, he mentions that you can get a lot of feedback on the traction from the steering wheel. I can see how you can sense the traction from the direction the car is going relative to the wheel, the feeling of sliding, or the sound of the tires, but what exactly does he mean by using the steering wheel itself to sense the traction? (And I do not think that he means the direction that you are pointing the wheel, although maybe that is what he means.)

As the front tires reach their limits of tracation, and start to understeer, the centering force on the steering wheel goes away, making the wheel go "all light and funny." This is a very good way to determine that you are approaching the limits of traction at the front end.

The centering force, by the way, is that effect suspension designers build in so that a car will straighten out on its own if you let go of the steering wheel in the middle of a turn. . . . provided the front tires have traction!

[PT Cruiser]

Bently gets a lot of things right in his book, but to my surprise, he repeats an error found in almost all "how to drive racecar" type books.


The error is the statement to the effect that "If you carry enough speed into a corner such that you have to delay application of the throttle on corner exit, you have overdone it, and need to back down a notch to optimize the corner."

Wrong, Wrong, WRONG!!!!!

The hardest thing to do in a race car is to keep the tires at their absolute maximum limits during the transition from threshold braking to corner entry. But say that you DO succeed in pulling this off during a given corner entry. You are then heading for the apex with the tires giving their absolute utmost. In that situation, you can't add any speed, since the tires are already at their limits. The only thing you can do is add "maintenance throtle" to hold the speed constant until such time as you can straighten out your hands, at which point you will finally be able to squeeze on the power.

Now, if another driver comes into the same turn, but takes off too much speed at turn-in, the tires aren't at their limits. If the driver in question is any good, he/she will instantly sense, once they have completed brake release, that the tires have more to give, and will add throtle to get the tires back up to their limits. As such, they will actually start accelerating sooner than the guy who has optimized the corner entry. However, they won't exit the corner any faster, since they can only accelerate the car in mid-corner to the speed that the driver who did the perfect corner entry is already going (i.e. the limits of what the tires can take for the radius in question)!!!

You see this all the time in the computer car. A student will brake as well as the instructor, but will dip 5 MPH lower at corner turn-in. The student will get on the gas sooner than the instructor, and by the Apex will be back up to the same speed as the instructor, and will exit the corner at the same speed as well, so they suffer no penalty down the following straight. But guess what: during that brief instant where the student is 5 MPH down on the instructor, he/she has lost .1-.3 seconds. Multiply this by 10 corners per lap, and there is your 1-3 second gap between decent drivers, and really, really good ones.

So what Bently (and others) should have said, is that as long as you can keep the car on the proper line, having to delay acceleration after corner entry is a sign that you have done a very good job on corner entry, not a sign that you have overcooked the entry, and need to back down the next time around.

It astounds me how many writers get this wrong.

One other point: It is easy to get in the habit of applying throttle at a given point in a corner. If you subsequently improve your corner entry speed, but leave the throttle application point unchanged, you will start running out of road at the exit, which will force you to lift, which will negate any advantage you gained from the improved corner entry, and then some. The bottom line is, when you start going faster (into the corner), you have to start being slower (with your right foot) on the exit. This does NOT come naturally. Indeed, when you do a great corner entry, the temptation is to try to press you advantage by, if anything, getting on the gas sooner. I made this mistake for many years, and only really understood the error of my ways after carefully digesting the computer car chapter in "Going Faster" (Carl Lopez being one of the few authors who actually gets this entire topic right).

Now, if anyone has any suggestions on how one learns to absolutely optimize corner entry on a consistent basis, I'm all ears. I have tried for years to find the last couple of tenths in this area, and although I sometimes do this corner or that corner on this lap or that lap pretty close to the limits (as indicated by the computer car), I have never been able to do this consistently. It is, I suppose, the difference, between driving mediocrity ( ), and driving genius ( ).

[sydude]

PT, I think the schools and the books teach the 'wrong' method because it's much safer. There are too many advanced level skills that the intended audience hasn't yet obtained to be able to safely apply the 'fast' technique. If a beginning racer tried it, they wouldn't last very long, and even if they didn't crash often, it would most likely be because they were going way too slow throughout the corner.

[WatertownNewbie]

From one of my earlier posts ...

Originally Posted by WatertownNewbie

[Bentley] mentions that you can get a lot of feedback on the traction from the steering wheel. I can see how you can sense the traction from the direction the car is going relative to the wheel, the feeling of sliding, or the sound of the tires, but what exactly does he mean by using the steering wheel itself to sense the traction?

In Carroll Smith's marvelous book Drive to Win, he gives the details:

"The sensitive driver can feel the difference between these areas [pertaining to lateral force and slip angles] because of the relationship between the slip angle curve and the curve of self aligning torque. Self aligning torque is the force generated by elastic deformation of the tread rubber as it rolls through the footprint. The distortion builds from a minimum value at the leading edge to a maximum value at the trailing edge of the footprint.

"Since the rubber tries to 'snap back' with a force proportional to the amount of distortion and since the center of pressure of the footprint is behind its (the footprint's) geometric center, the self aligning torque tries to return the tire to its straight ahead position -- it is one of the two main reasons why the steering wheel snaps back to center when you let go of it (the other is castor).

"Self aligning torque, reacted through the steering, is one of the factors which allows the driver to 'feel' what his (front) tires are doing. Reacted through the chassis and the seat of his pants it is one of the factors which tells him what the rear tires are doing."

This is what a couple of you were getting at in your replies to my posting, but this additional detail from Smith, especially about the distortion and deformation of the tire, was incredibly enlightening. Thanks again, Sy, for your book recommmendations.

[WatertownNewbie]

Sy, you asked for my thoughts on the books, and I have finished all four. The sequence that I read them in was probably ideal (purely by happenstance and not by design). The two Bentley books were ok, and they merit re-reading. Next was Smith, which was excellent (not quite as good as Going Faster!, but not a long way behind, and in some ways filled in a few gaps). Taruffi was fun -- entertaining as a classic work from a by-gone era and relevant as a treatise on aspects that have not changed. What I now need to do is go back and re-read Going Faster! and see what things I missed on the initial reading. (As an aside, I saw Ari at LRP this afternoon, and he mentioned some comments you had made to him about the books, and I told Ari that I have ordered the tire book in your list -- I find the whole tire deformation and traction thing really interesting.)


So ... for you drivers who are looking for some solid reading, I can strongly recommend not only Going Faster! by Carl Lopez but also Drive to Win by Carroll Smith.

[sydude]

We've just added a new 'Racing Books and Magazines' category to the Stuff/Links system, and have added the books referenced above (plus a few new ones). If you click on any of the books, it takes you right to that book on Amazon's site, where you can find out more about it or buy it.

Also, you can post rate each book (from 1 to 5 stars) or post your reviews there as well.

Here's a link to the category:

http://www.teamjuicyracing.com/forum...s.php?catid=13

[WatertownNewbie]

Originally Posted by sydude

We've just added a new 'Racing Books and Magazines' category to the Stuff/Links system, and have added the books referenced above (plus a few new ones).

Are you sure? There were only a couple when I last looked (i.e., not all of the referenced books). Plus, can we add our own suggestions? Lastly, there are places besides Amazon to buy motorsports books and videos (much as I do like Amazon).

[sydude]

Sorry, there was a small bug which I fixed. The rest of the books are viewable now. If there are other books not listed by Amazon, go ahead and submit them. Thanks.

[oldredracer]

Originally Posted by WatertownNewbie

...The Lombardi race in the rain taught me more about the wet line at LRP than the little bit of discussion about that topic during the 3-day course... Isn't ANYBODY going to tell him where Phil's rain line went???

Thanks for the heads up, for some unknown reason it has disappeared from Phil's server (was linked here to phil). Uploading it now, will take about 15 min

[cdh]

Originally Posted by oldredracer

Thanks for the heads up, for some unknown reason it has disappeared from Phil's server (was linked here to phil). Uploading it now, will take about 15 min

Wow. Who knew?? Here I was, trying to be subtle about certain changes to the track surface and I uncover a mystery!!!

It's still Mr. Phil's wild ride though, isn't it?

[cdh]

It's back - Phil Rain LRP 2003 Haven't watched in a long time. Early editing skills apparent, still fun watching Phil clubbing the seals

[oldredracer]

Originally Posted by WatertownNewbie

...The Lombardi race in the rain taught me more about the wet line at LRP than the little bit of discussion about that topic during the 3-day course...

Isn't ANYBODY going to tell him where Phil's rain line went???