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  #1  
Old 06-19-2007
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Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Dear MICHAEL ,
Have you ever wondered what it would be like to drive a Formula One racecar? At Road America? Wonder no more.
For three dates only - August 2, 23, and 30 - Skip Barber is offering a special, full day version of our Introduction to Racing in conjunction with LRS Formula USA and their fleet of Formula One machinery.



These guys are cracking me up! Does anyone actually believe that they'll be turning the "Intro To Racing" crowd loose for four unrestrained laps in a retired F1 car after three 20 minute lead-follow sessions. 14,000 rpm redline? I don't think we were supposed to exceed 5,000 in the school cars on the third day of the 3DRS. This must be the future of "Life Without Vipers"

I'll bet the CD waiver for this affair is ENORMOUS!
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Old 06-19-2007
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Just in from SBRS

Have you ever wondered what it would be like to drive a Formula One racecar? At Road America? Wonder no more.
For three dates only - August 2, 23, and 30 - Skip Barber is offering a special, full day version of our Introduction to Racing in conjunction with LRS Formula USA and their fleet of Formula One machinery.
The featured cars for these events will be LRS Formula USA’s pair of Arrows A-18 (as driven by Damon Hill and Pedro Diniz in the 1997 championship). Powered by Cosworth HF normally aspirated V8 engines that rev up to 14,000 RPM, these historic machines feature paddle-shifted semi-automatic gearboxes and carbon-carbon brakes -- just like they had when they were on the grid at Monaco, Spa and Monza.
The morning session will consist of the Skip Barber Introduction to Racing; a three-hour program consisting of classroom training and (3) 20-minute session on track in the Formula Skip Barber racecar. After a lunch break the LRS Formula USA guys take over, preparing you for the experience of piloting a Formula One racecar for four laps around the 2.2 mile Skip Barber School Course.
PRICE: $3,395
Space is limited, so call a School & Series Advisor to reserve your seat today. NOTE: Online registration is not available for these events.
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Just in from SBRS

Quote:
Originally Posted by gt250
Have you ever wondered what it would be like to drive a Formula One racecar? At Road America? ... After a lunch break the LRS Formula USA guys take over, preparing you for the experience of piloting a Formula One racecar for four laps around the 2.2 mile Skip Barber School Course.
I assume that this eliminates taking a ferocious car through the Kink?
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Just in from SBRS

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Originally Posted by WatertownNewbie
I assume that this eliminates taking a ferocious car through the Kink?
I think there is a typo in the ad copy. Somewhere in there they left out the word "Playstation" or "Video".

We need a pole - "Collision damage liability under or over $20,000?"
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Just in from SBRS

Quote:
Originally Posted by WatertownNewbie
I assume that this eliminates taking a ferocious car through the Kink?
School course uses kink, begins just past T5 and rejoins after the old BM Bridge. LOL Rosso



btw, I merged threads - cdh
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Just in from SBRS

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Originally Posted by cdh
School course uses kink, runs T5 - Canada, rejoins after the old BM Bridge.
Then it would be really fun to stand somewhere near the Kink and watch Revere come out of the Carousel, storm through the Kink, and disappear down toward Canada. My guess is that by the fourth lap (if not sooner) he would be cooking.
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

It would be fun to be the driver

With the right group this would be a blast. Since they note there are no On-Line registrations, my guess is they are looking for drivers with some seat time.
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Nah... They're more interested in drivers with good credit scores. It would be fun though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdh
Since they note there are no On-Line registrations, my guess is they are looking for drivers with some seat time.
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Just got off the phone with them, starts the day at 9:30 in the school cars doing an intro to racing, then after lunch 4 laps with the F1 car. There will be no lead follow, as only 1 car at a time on the track. Additional laps are $595/ea and you can only buy them at the track.

$4500 liability per incident in the F1 car.
no damage liability for the skippy cars ( ?? )

I'll be there on the 2nd ;-)
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Sounds cool. Would be cooler with the whole track. But you can't have everything. I bet that car is a blast to drive. Someone who is going must get a video and they have to post it, full audio!
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by chsutherland
Sounds cool. Would be cooler with the whole track. But you can't have everything. I bet that car is a blast to drive. Someone who is going must get a video and they have to post it, full audio!
They said the short course was to "minimize" incidents... I'd guess it is mileage / time personally. hat is fine with me, as I'd rather have 4 laps of the short course than 2 laps of the full course. all your missing are the straights.

As far as video, if available I most certainly will...
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirling
Just got off the phone with them, starts the day at 9:30 in the school cars doing an intro to racing, then after lunch 4 laps with the F1 car. There will be no lead follow, as only 1 car at a time on the track. Additional laps are $595/ea and you can only buy them at the track.

$4500 liability per incident in the F1 car.
no damage liability for the skippy cars ( ?? )

I'll be there on the 2nd ;-)
Geez, that all sounds so - REASONABLE - what am I missing?

Seriously, though, why the "Intro to Racing" hook-up?

Why not "Seriously Advanced 3/4 Day Racing School"?

I tell ya one thing, I'm getting the calculator out to see if I can get a business plan to work that will float the purchase and upkeep of a couple of retired F1 warhorses.
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso
Seriously, though, why the "Intro to Racing" hook-up? Why not "Seriously Advanced 3/4 Day Racing School"?
copy that, an odd mix

I wonder how the A-18 will handle on BFG treads?

Very tempting - LRS web gallery



can you imagine this ride???

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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirling
all your missing are the straights.
now there's an unintentional understatement. What are we talking about, 700bhp? The straight's the thing, dude! (ok. so I'm a redneck.) That Moraine straight is the closest thing to the Mulsanne I've experienced so far. Leaving it out is a little like getting to drive a Funny Car and being limited to one inch of throttle travel...

but all this is moot for me-- gotta be careful with my racing $$... spending them fast enough as it is....
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

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Originally Posted by cdh
can you imagine this ride???
I hope you can see over the tires
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

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Originally Posted by cdh
duuuuude, that thing looks like Kuato from Total Recall!!!



---

Back to the F1 program, I 'recall' (hehehe) hearing that these kinds of deals have a proviso that if you put one wheel off in the trainer car (Clio, F3, etc) you are OUT on the spot, with no chance to drive the F1 car, and with no refund.
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

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I hope you can see over the tires
yeah, and what does the driver see in his mirrors?
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowhands
now there's an unintentional understatement. What are we talking about, 700bhp? The straight's the thing, dude! (ok. so I'm a redneck.) That Moraine straight is the closest thing to the Mulsanne I've experienced so far. Leaving it out is a little like getting to drive a Funny Car and being limited to one inch of throttle travel...
Remember what most who test an F1car for the first time say (including Jeff Gordon and I think this point was mentioned during either te Canada or Indy broadcast). It's not how fast they are (and they are bloody fast) but it's how fast they brake. Keep this in mind, those of you who sign up, and "GO DEEP"

BTW. How did I get bumped from first to second since I started this thread? I want a ruling. (Hey, gotta take every win I can get).
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Last edited by dalyduo; 06-20-2007 at 12:01 AM. Reason: fixed quote instructions
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

in the 3 seater pictures.. why do both passengers have their arms up? do they think it is a roller coaster? odd....
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

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BTW. How did I get bumped from first to second since I started this thread? I want a ruling. (Hey, gotta take every win I can get).
there were 2 separate threads in different forums started on the subject, this is how it merged. The posts were almost simultaneous, right after the email blast from SB
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

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Originally Posted by cdh
there were 2 separate threads in different forums started on the subject, this is how it merged. The posts were almost simultaneous, right after the email blast from SB
Damn, lost by a tenth!!!
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

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Damn, lost by a tenth!!!
That's racing!
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

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Originally Posted by Stirling
...$4500 liability per incident in the F1 car...( ?? )

I'll be there on the 2nd ;-)
First, all of this sounds like an absolute blast. No kiddin’.

Second, let me be the first to publicly acknowledge that I have –ZERO- qualifications to play with someone else’s F-1 car. Pa-leeze. This is NOT news to many of you guys

Anybody care to venture a guess at the replacement cost of the front or rear wing?
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

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Originally Posted by gt250
Remember what most who test an F1car for the first time say ... It's not how fast they are (and they are bloody fast) but it's how fast they brake.
I noticed that from the in-car. Here they are coming down the oval at 200+ and they don't brake until just before turn-in!
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Old 06-19-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

4 laps?
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Old 06-19-2007
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Thumbs up Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso
Anybody care to venture a guess at the replacement cost of the front or rear wing?
Well I am guessing since CD is limited to $4500... anything yo do to the car will cost $4500... Scratch the paint with the belts? $4500, flat spot a tyre? $4500, touch a curb? $4500...

in all seriousness, they let anyone drive these.. if you have had experience in a skippy car before. Especially at RA, then you are already more qualified than many of their other "students".
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Old 06-20-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

The sucker bet is $450 per additional lap. It would take most at least 4 laps to approach the comfort level needed to explore the limits of the car. So just about the time they're flagging you in for a change of diaper, those physically capable will be salivating for a few more laps.

I say physically capable because when Derek Daly drove a Jordan a few years ago at about age 50 he wrote that the limits of the car were so high and strength required so demanding that he expected it to be his last drive of a modern F1 car because he just couldn't sustain it for more than a few laps. So four laps may be just enough to pleasantly exhaust most and for those young and strong enough not to be exhausted the opportunity for serious fun and expense may be available.
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Old 06-20-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalyduo
The sucker bet is $450 per additional lap.
Additional laps are $595/ea. per Stirling.

To fully take advantage of a modern F1 car you must get up to speeds where the aero downforce comes into play. I imagine that would be VERY difficult to do in 4 laps, or 40 for that matter ($23,800). The acceleration and braking would be fun to experience though. Can you say no seat insert????

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Old 06-20-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

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Originally Posted by dalyduo
The sucker bet is $450 per additional lap. It would take most at least 4 laps to approach the comfort level needed to explore the limits of the car.
Having been a student of General Duck Waddle (I still have the Wal-Mart skirt!) I have to ask if the four laps includes the requisite, properly executed, warm-up and cool-down laps?
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Old 06-20-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdh
Additional laps are $595/ea. per Stirling.

To fully take advantage of a modern F1 car you must get up to speeds where the aero downforce comes into play. I imagine that would be VERY difficult to do in 4 laps, or 40 for that matter. The acceleration and braking would be fun to experience though.
Could you even get the carbon/carbon brakes hot enough in that time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdh
... Can you say no seat insert????
Geez, $3,400 for the day, why not drop another $100 or so for an insert? I'd be a great souvenir!
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Last edited by Rosso; 06-20-2007 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 06-20-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso
Could you even get the carbon/carbon brakes hot enough in that time?
.....or the tires for that matter?
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Old 06-20-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

No doubt the brakes could be warmed quickly but to get any kind of feel for their limits and proper application is what would rapidly use up your laps.

A proper bead seat in an Indy Car costs something like $1,500 - $2,500 and is way more involved than a skippy seat. Even if they could make a simple insert for you there wouldn't be time. It's a good idea but the practical application wouldn't be time or cost effective.

Because of our time in Skippy and other race cars we all tend to think of this experience as a chance to fully explore the limits of an F1 car. I believe the design of these exercises is to let you come away saying, "Wow, I can't believe how fast it accelerated, how much grip it had and how fast it stopped!", without giving you enough time and space to really find the limits and get into trouble. Though it's a pretty safe bet some will.

It would be fun to see RB, or Jason, guys who drive race cars every day, take one of those cars out for four laps and report back.

Having said all this I'd love to do it but it's a very expensive highly monitored thrill ride. With limited resources I'll opt for a full race weekend instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso
Could you even get the carbon/carbon brakes hot enough in that time?



Geez, $3,400 for the day, why not drop another $100 or so for an insert? I'd be a great souvenir!
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Old 06-20-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso
I have to ask if the four laps includes the requisite, properly executed, warm-up and cool-down laps?
Cool down what? After 4 laps the only thing in my case that would be over temp would be the driver...
nope, at $595/lap, that sucker's coming in HOT



BTW, cdh, funny, funny smilie for the 3-headed F1 ride-along monster!
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Old 06-25-2007
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Re: Just in from SBRS

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Originally Posted by WatertownNewbie
Then it would be really fun to stand somewhere near the Kink and watch Revere come out of the Carousel, storm through the Kink, and disappear down toward Canada. My guess is that by the fourth lap (if not sooner) he would be cooking.
I, too, would like to watch myself doing all of these things, but unfortunately, this will not be possible. For me or anyone else. I did the same "LRS F1 Experience" at Barcelona in November, 2002. The day was the most frustrating and dissapointing experience I've ever had in a race car. "How can that be?," you might say: racing is like pizza is like sex. Even when it's bad, it's still pretty good. Let me explain my difficulty with the program by describing the day.

I arrived at the track to find I was the one of two participants with any racing experience. The other was an obese, officious Spanish man who had completed a single Formula Renault school. After a brief talk about the racing line and basic driving techniques, we completed two short (20 min) sessions in 120 hp Formula Renaults. Not knowing the track or the cars, I drove around at maybe 6/10ths. It was boring, but I wanted to satisfy the instructors that I was competent and responsible. When I emerged from the car after the second session, the LRS guy running the program excoriated me in front of the group, claiming I had driven more dangerously than anyone he had ever seen, and that unless I reigned myself in, I couldn't drive the Formula 1 car in the afternoon.

In the moment, this criticism surprised me. Most at Skip Barber know me as someone who drives smoothly and doesn't take crazy risks. My analysis after the fact is that the guy running the program wanted to make an example of me to discourage others from trying to go quickly in the F1 car. I should have left the track and demanded a partial refund, but it's difficult to resist a 700 hp carrot.

After the morning session, we sat down to lunch, where I noticed one of my co-participants, unmolested by the chief instructor, drinking a beer. Alcohol = ok. Driving safely, smoothly, consistently = out of bounds.

In the afternoon, my chastisement continued. As I climbed into the F1 car (a 1994 Larousse retrofitted with paddle shifters), the instructor continued to claim what I had done in the morning was "terrible" and "dangerous," and threated to stop me on track with a remote kill switch if he deemed my driving unsafe. I'm used to this kind of pep talk now -- JP threatens to use the remote kill switch all the time during lead follow sessions -- but then, it severely curtailed my enjoyment of the car. Which, by way, was enjoyable on the straights, where it deformed my eyeballs under acceleration, but boring in the corners because we had been prohibited from approaching any reasonable pace. The kill switch loomed. Hence, the impossibility of "storm[ing] through the Kink, and disappear[ing] down toward Canada."

I should offer a caveat: the program might be improved because Skip Barber is involved. But if the same people are running the F1 end of things -- and it seems to me that it's the same group -- it will be difficult for the quality offered by Skip to counterbalance the dross that is the LRS F1 experience.

The only way I'd sign up to do this program again is if I knew it guaranteed the opportunity to kick the lead LRS instructor in the nuts.
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  #35  
Old 06-25-2007
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Re: Just in from SBRS

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgreist
... because we had been prohibited from approaching any reasonable pace. The kill switch loomed. Hence, the impossibility of "storm[ing] through the Kink, and disappear[ing] down toward Canada."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso
...Does anyone actually believe that they'll be turning the "Intro To Racing" crowd loose for four unrestrained laps in a retired F1 car..


Well Revere, clearly the answer to my smart-ass rhetorical question of a week ago is not only “yes” but “HELL YES”. Revere, sign up again! Plan on a last lap flyer! What’s he going to do, push the button? So what! Does he really even have a button? Do we know? What range does it have? IF he really has one, I betcha it’s range is no better than a good RC box. In any event, he wouldn’t dare do it mid corner and trigger a TTO event.
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Last edited by Rosso; 06-25-2007 at 12:40 PM.
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  #36  
Old 06-25-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso
Having been a student of General Duck Waddle...I have to ask if the four laps includes the requisite, properly executed, warm-up and cool-down laps?
Based on Revere's report, it looks like it includes 4 of them.
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  #37  
Old 06-25-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

very interesting. as a guy who's never done a race weekend and been driving skip cars since 99 due to $$$ hmmm tuff one. having a little F1 experience would sure make me feel better about myself lol. but if they are going to sit on your shoulder the whole time and ruin it, I dont know. are tire warmers used, traction control? how will we sit in this thing with out a seat? do we need a hans, I dont use one. If I drive this thing, its gotta be in anger. wish it was a champcar. theres a guy that rents those too out there.
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Old 06-25-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

No tire warmers, but tire temp wasn't a problem because we were going so unbelievably slowly. Not sure if traction control, because controlling traction wasn't permitted to be an issue.
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Old 06-25-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Revere,
I certainly hope this is different, and I can only hope we are treated better. I will say this, kill switch or not, I dont plan on running at 3/10....

Now if only it would rain, I do my best driving in the rain. Traction control, soft bars, and rain tyres would be fun!
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Old 06-25-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirling
Revere,
I certainly hope this is different, and I can only hope we are treated better. I will say this, kill switch or not, I dont plan on running at 3/10....

Now if only it would rain, I do my best driving in the rain. Traction control, soft bars, and rain tyres would be fun!
Jedi Stirling, if a kill switch they should use, a legend you shall become. Fulfill the Lap 4 Prophesy.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.... Yoda
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Old 06-25-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Just make sure they treat you well. If they don't, demand a refund.
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  #42  
Old 06-27-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Reading about Revere's experience with LRS really throws into relief everything that SBRS does right. The bottom line is, with the exception of a few rev limits during the 3 day school, SBRS is willing to turn us lose to push the limits as much as we dare . . . and has managed to develop equipment that is fast enough to be interesting, but slow enough so as to be relatively safe, and relatively inexpensive to repair, when the inevitable crashes follow.

Given LRS' $4500 crash damage deductable, I suppose I can understand their lead instructor's paranoia when it comes to letting anyone run their F1 car at greater than 5 tenths. With that business model, if more than 1 out of every 500 customers has even a minor incident, they would be out of business in a heartbeat. But even if I can understand why they have to run the program the way they do, it doesn't make it sound any more appealing for a competent racer. So I'm with Pat. . . . I'll save my $3995 for another SBRS race weekend. Sorry Revere had to pay full price to get the low-down on the program, but appreciate the fact that he shared his experiences so the rest of us understand just what is and isn't being offered for the bucks involved.
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Old 06-28-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

My experience certainly does bring to light the quality of the Skip Barber organization.
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  #44  
Old 06-28-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

SBRS Jinsu knives to be sold on the Dish Network's jewelry chanel starting in October. Honey back guarantee.
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Old 06-29-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Lopez
SBRS Jinsu knives to be sold on the Dish Network's jewelry chanel starting in October. Honey back guarantee.
Do they come with a signed copy of the book "Slicing Deeper?"
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Old 06-29-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America



Ginsu 2000 / RT2000
Coincidence….I think not
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Old 08-27-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirling
Just got off the phone with them, starts the day at 9:30 in the school cars doing an intro to racing, then after lunch 4 laps with the F1 car. There will be no lead follow, as only 1 car at a time on the track. Additional laps are $595/ea and you can only buy them at the track.

$4500 liability per incident in the F1 car.
no damage liability for the skippy cars ( ?? )

I'll be there on the 2nd ;-)
Did you do this Stirling? Anyone try it?
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Old 11-07-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

I was there with Stirling back in early August. Here's a link to a brief Youtube video of me coming out of Canada (yes, I'm slow, I know it, give me a break...!)



A few pics are here under the "Road America - F1 link:

http://members.cox.net/eyager
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Old 11-07-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Great pics, and if you fast forward the video very impressive Thanks for sharing the experience with us!
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Old 11-07-2007
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Re: Skip Barber Presents: F1 Cars at Road America

Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Edman View Post
I was there with Stirling back in early August. Here's a link to a brief Youtube video of me coming out of Canada
looks great, sounds great, nice pics on your site too

Did you find LRS better than Revere's hilarious critique in post #34? Would really like to hear more.
Stirling! How dare you participate and not tell us ALL about it.
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Last edited by cdh; 11-08-2007 at 12:30 AM.
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