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Old 11-23-2006
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Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Welcome to the New Skippy Car Components Survey #8 of 8, presented by Gerardo and myself. This final week's topic is COST. Let's get right to it.

As with previous solicitations for feedback, lets keep a nice balance of positive and negative comments. Thanks so much!

2007 Skippy Car Survey #8 of 8 - Cost

These questions shall relate to the New Car only – please don’t respond with general race series suggestions.

1. Excepting cost, please list (in order of priority) approximately 3 to 6 of the most important attributes you believe the new car needs to have in order to successfully replace the R/T. Some attribute examples: (please write-in or use any other attributes you value – don’t limit yourself to these):
Safer
Fits Bigger Drivers
Quicker Size Adjustments
Easier to Equalize
Sexier
Easier to Drive
Faster
More Comfortable
New Features & Gadgets
Bigger Gas Tank/Longer Runs
2. Assuming that the New Car will be better than the R/T in all of the areas you indicated were important to you, how much more (%) would you be willing to pay?

3. In regards to additional ‘features’ (Data Acquisition, Digital Dash, Shift Lights, Built-in Radio/Video etc) - do you prefer a low-cost/no-frills car? Or would you prefer to pay more, and get additional features that you’re interested in?

4. What features above and beyond a ‘no-frills’ car are you most interested in? (see Surveys 1-7 for more features)

5. What would you consider to be an acceptable difference (%) in cost between a no-frills car, and the same car with the features that you’re interested in?

6. Assuming that Skippy’s pricing using the New Car will fall within your parameters, would you be interested in racing more, less or the same? If applicable, how much more or less?

7. Finally, what ideas would you suggest to control costs (car related only please)?

This thread will be closed to further replies just before midnight on Monday, December 4th.

Thanks again!
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Old 11-23-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

1. Excepting cost, please list (in order of priority) approximately 3 to 6 of the most important attributes you believe the new car needs to have in order to successfully replace the R/T. Some attribute examples: (please write-in or use any other attributes you value – don’t limit yourself to these):

In descending order of importance:

Safety – The current cars are darn safe. Everything should be done to make the new cars at least as safe, if not more so. Carl Lopez’s idea of better protecting the wheels of the car to minimize the potential for wheel-to-wheel contact, and the resulting flips, seems like the most promising idea suggested.

Reliability -- After the initial teething problems have been resolved, the new cars must be at least as reliable as the current fleet. This is a tall order. In 15 years racing with Skip, I’ve done well over 150 races, and I can recall only 5 instances where I MDNF’d. Given the mileage put on the cars in any given race weekend, not to mention over the course of a season, this is just amazing. If I suddenly started averaging 5 DNF’s per 14 race season, my enjoyment of the sport would drop considerably.

Easier to Equalize – The more equal the cars, the better the racing, particularly at the regional championship and national levels, where many of the drivers are skilled at using the cars to their full potential. The more the design of the new car makes it easier for SBRS to equalize the cars with a minimal investment of resources (i.e. tester time, mechanic time, etc.), the better the series will be.

Better Drafting – The old Formula Fords produced a much stronger draft than the current R/T2000. As such, strategic thinking and gamesmanship used to count more when it came to winning races. Better drafting also reduced the penalty for having a car that was slightly DOP – as long as you didn’t make a big mistake that got you dropped from the back of a pack, you could still be in the game. Also, better drafting meant there was less need for the sort of balls-to-the-wall outbraking maneuvers that are necessary to gain positions in the R/T2000 when running against an evenly matched driver.
Cheaper crash damage bills for minor car contact -- The darn front wings on the current R/T 2000 can quickly turn a slight misjudgment under braking in traffic into a $1500 crash damage bill. This is as annoying as hell. On the old formula fords, a similar mistake meant $50 for a new nose nipple. . . . or if you really blew it, $300 for a new nose.

Bigger Gas Tank/Longer Runs –While the 5 group format means that it would not always be possible for SBRS to take advantage of the added fuel capacity (just not enough hours in the day), it would nice to have the capability of running longer races. I still have very fond memories of the "enduro" memorials that SBRS ran in the early 90’s at Mid-Ohio in the Formula Fords. I think those races were a full hour long –one driver, no fuel stop required—and it was definitely an interesting experience to run at race pace for that length of time, a great opportunity to work on turning in fast, consistent lap times.

Data Acquisition. A car that displays minimum speed in each corner, in real time, for instant feedback, would be a valuable learning tool.


2. Assuming that the New Car will be better than the R/T in all of the areas you indicated were important to you, how much more (%) would you be willing to pay?
5%-10% max. My racing is strictly budget limited, so as prices go up, my seat time goes down in direct proportion. I am not interested in trading in seat time for a few bells and whistles, or for a faster vehicle that is more mechanically fickle, and thus more expensive to maintain.
3. In regards to additional ‘features’ (Data Acquisition, Digital Dash, Shift Lights, Built-in Radio/Video etc) - do you prefer a low-cost/no-frills car? Or would you prefer to pay more, and get additional features that you’re interested in?
In general, a low-cost/no-frills car best fits the bill. But when it comes to no-lift shifting, shift indicator lights, and the like, I think we would be creating cars that are harder to maintain (given the added complexity of the bells and whistles) in exchange for features that would contribute very little to the overall Skip Barber experience.
4. What features above and beyond a ‘no-frills’ car are you most interested in? (see Surveys 1-7 for more features)
I would pay a bit more for a corner minimum speed indicator, because I think this piece of data would be particularly helpful for drivers finding the last couple of tenths.
5. What would you consider to be an acceptable difference (%) in cost between a no-frills car, and the same car with the features that you’re interested in?
5%.
6. Assuming that Skippy’s pricing using the New Car will fall within your parameters, would you be interested in racing more, less or the same? If applicable, how much more or less?
As noted above, I race as much as my budget permits. If the new car costs less, I will race more. If the new car costs more, I will race less. If the new car raises the price of racing at SBRS to the point where Skippy seat time is no longer competitive with other arrive and drive racing options, I will be forced to look elsewhere, despite my long standing loyalty to the Skip Barber program.
7. Finally, what ideas would you suggest to control costs (car related only please)?
--Get rid of the front wings, or else make them super-cheap to repair.

--Use rock hard tires. Tires will last longer, reducing cost. They will also be harder to flat spot, reducing driver complaints. As cornering speeds go down, crashes will happen at lower speeds, which increases safety while lowering crash damage bills. And as grip decreases in relation to available power, more driver finesse would be required, particularly at corner exit.
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Old 11-23-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Thanks to Peter for his most thoughtful response covering both car features and cost.

Assuming the sine qua non of equal or greater safety, cost and car equality are the critical variables eclipsing all other issues we've discussed. If the cars are a bit slower and less sexy that will work fine as long as fields are full as they've been the last two years. Deciding price points on sessions and crash damage that attract large fields while satisfying SBR owners' profit goals is part art. I hope and expect they will continue to get it right.
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Old 11-23-2006
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It’s very hard to improve on Pete’s excellent analysis. My starting bias: I am in it strictly for fun and for the challenge of improving my skills; I am happy with the current car. Therefore, I would look for the new car to deliver roughly the same performance, reliability and safety as the current car but with increased efficiency [e.g., removal of useless features such as the wings, cars that are easier to maintain and repair, etc], resulting overall in the same race week-end costs but lower crash damage costs. OK to have a few a la carte gizmos, such as radio hook-ups, video, whatever. IMHO, the core Skip Barber user is a hobbyist like myself focused on fun and value for the money. Dedicated racers, whether teens or late converts, are just passing through the Skip Barber system; there is no business sense in tailoring the product around their needs, and certainly not at the expense of the hobbyists.
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Old 11-24-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Close the thread, PT, Doc and Dom have it covered

I am all for no frills, good drafting, safe, reliable, same cost racing. I know, keep the R/T but redesign the nose and tail feathers for cheaper replacement, that would work for me. I can't see a new car in the very near future anyway so this makes even more sense to me.
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Old 11-24-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdh
Close the thread, PT, Doc and Dom have it covered
I agree completely.
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Old 11-24-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

I totally disagree. You guys (CDH & Watertown) are looking at the small picture only.

First of all, both the company and the industry are changing significantly, and the survival of the series (in the not-so-very long-term) will depend on the company becoming more efficient, and fulfilling the needs of the industry overall and not just the values of the loyal regional series racer. The racing school and corporate events market are MUCH bigger than the series, which is probably miniscule in comparison to either, and they have a different value system.

Secondly, I believe that there is a significant skippy racer base with a very different value system too, and they are just as loyal and spend just as much money on Skippy.

So please don't discourage the free exchange of opinions until everyone's had a chance to jump in. The idea of this survey is to come up with a solution that meets everyone's needs, which is entirely possible.
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Old 11-24-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Quote:
Originally Posted by sydude
I totally disagree. You guys (CDH & Watertown) are looking at the small picture only.

So please don't discourage the free exchange of opinions until everyone's had a chance to jump in. The idea of this survey is to come up with a solution that meets everyone's needs, which is entirely possible.
Sy, I am not trying to discourage a free exchange of ideas. My pithy reply meant that I had nothing to add to what PT, Dom, and Doug had posted, and I wanted to enter my vote in that respect. Apparently, you are also looking for (or at least anticipating) some other style of answer from someone, and when it is posted, please let us know that.
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Old 11-24-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Dude, lighten up, I was only saying I agree with the first posts - not to actually close the thread, geeeeez, NEVER take me that literally (didn't you see the smiley????). And if I am only looking at the small picture, whatever that is, then so are PT, Doc Greist and Dom.

Where did I comment on the schools???
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Last edited by cdh; 11-24-2006 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 11-24-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

This is one of the many occasions where you should ignore me! Sorry, I didn't mean to be a weenie.
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Old 11-24-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

I agree with Sy that all should comment.

My comments were related to the race series. The monetary value of the other SB components from a revenue perspective is apparent.
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Old 11-24-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

That loud gong sound you just heard was me knocking Sy in the head with a pot.

He regrets being so uptight.
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Old 11-25-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

I would offer that the ultimate cost to the participant will largely be a funcion of how much of the total cost is offset by solid sponsor relationships. We can see even with the R/T as the Dodge deal winds down that the Company is continually trying to pull cost out of the product to continue (or to try) to make money. I don't think SBRS can provide the product we have come to expect at the prices we are used to paying without substantial third party support

The Company needs to have a car that looks like it belongs and large fields to find a relationship with a series that sets up the SBRS system as part of a real ladder system in order to attract sponsors - a little "Catch-22" there. Nonetheless, this is what attracts people to the series and helps offset the cost for everyone.

Ultimately, the reality of a new car and the cost to race it will be a function of which and to what extent companies sponsor the series and which, if any, series SBRS can affiliate to form a perceived ladder.

With sponsors and other relationships in place the Company then knows its share of the cost basis and the matter of pricing becomes more subjective. Without those things, I don't know that even with today's R/T any of us want to pay the price that SBRS would need to charge to get the product we expect.
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Old 11-25-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlippert
Ultimately, the reality of a new car and the cost to race it will be a function of which and to what extent companies sponsor the series and which, if any, series SBRS can affiliate to form a perceived ladder.
This is one side-effect of the CART/IRL split, and the related rise of NASCAR, that hits too close to home.

My nightmare scenario: In order to get the corporate sponsorship it needs to keep the racing affordable, Skip Barber finds it has no option but to field Legends cars, tarted up to look Nexel cup replicas, at tracks like Taladaga, Bristol, and Daytona.
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Old 11-25-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Quote:
Originally Posted by PT Cruiser

My nightmare scenario: In order to get the corporate sponsorship it needs to keep the racing affordable, Skip Barber finds it has no option but to field Legends cars, tarted up to look Nexel cup replicas, at tracks like Taladaga, Bristol, and Daytona.
What an unholy nightmare.
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Old 11-25-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

I dunno, Legends at Bristol, Richmond or LRP (perish the thought) might be a bit of a hoot.
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Old 11-25-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlippert
I dunno, Legends at Bristol, Richmond or LRP (perish the thought) might be a bit of a hoot.
Now that I think of it, JP ran Legends at VIR recently and said they were quite a challenge, maybe more than School Cars. Let's try it!
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Old 11-25-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

The new car should be safer than the current one (roll hoop, steering column and the bar across the thighs come immediately to my mind).

While everyone wants safe, I have reason and expertise to believe that no one is willing to pay for it. Or who here on the board used to order an electronic stability system as an option (back in the day when they were new technology) for their street car when you could get a wheel upgrade for the same price.
So safety becomes a corporate duty if SB likes it or not. I had tried to explain this in the HANS thread but there is too much emotion buried there to make it stick.

I have never run a racing school/series and have no clue on the cost structure. But I assume that at least 50% of the cost for a race weekend is overhead outside of car depreciation (I could be totally off here, but would like to stay with this to make my point).

Let us say the next car could cost anywhere from $35,000 to $70,000 per piece. If my calculations were right than the difference between lowest and highest price for a race is not 100% but only 50%, provided car depreciation factors are identical. What I am trying to say is that doubling car price does not double the cost of the race weekend.

I, like PT am a budget racer. What I spend in crashes I will take out from seat time. In so far I will favor a concept that can shear off its corners and wings and feathers for relatively cheap. It seems appropriate for SB is generating a minor parts profit out of wings, wheels etc. but it should remain reasonably priced.

If the SB business model depends on filling 5 race groups on two or three days per race weekend, than we should consider why this does not always work. One issue could be that the pricing is already limiting the target group. As things are I would guees that the median household income of an SB racer is north of a qtr mill. Lowering the prices might not be necessary but maybe a pricing system similar to airlines where less affluent prospects could buy last minute slots at a discount could work.

OK, now I am hijacking this thread, sorry. Anyway, I believe that 3G should buy you two days of racing including travel. Higher prices might be the way to go but I believe it would cause the loss of some participants. There are many enthusiastic Walter Mittys out there who are just not quite as financially privileged that probably would consider 2G a more palpable price.

I completely agree with the always well spoken John Greist, that factors like ladder/feeder series need to be highly considered to attract third party sponsor ships.

OK, I already have done better posts, but now I am too lazy to touch up this one.
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Old 11-26-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

For me, cost is a major factor to consider for racing. I like that skip offers you the chance to win some of your money back with racing credit. Mazda might be a good match for what SBRS is trying to do. Rotary motors are pretty cool, rev real high, don't have a minimum octane suggestion, and in my experience with them have an even torque band. I am sure there are others on this site that would know more. My uncle made some cars in the 90's that had rotary powerplants, eric shark who is a scca racer helped in the design and production of the motors and cars. I looked at buying a Legends car earlier this year and opted to race in SBRS instead. They were pretty neat little cars, $13,000 new with all the bells and whistles. As i recall they had a very hard compound tire and some people used one or two sets all year. I thought it would be fun to have because you can race it on dirt, asphault, or a road course. In regard to the new car it would seem the best thing to do is have a base model with a la carte options. SBRS does have the most tracks and a wonderful staff.
p.s. a Legends enduro at LRP might be real fun, anyone have any interest in purchasing a brand new M6 the buyer backed out
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Old 11-26-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

I'm going to put in my two cents. (Actually you probably need to put in at least 4 cents to comment here )

1. Excepting cost, please list (in order of priority) approximately 3 to 6 of the most important attributes you believe the new car needs to have in order to successfully replace the R/T. Some attribute examples: (please write-in or use any other attributes you value – don’t limit yourself to these):

1-Safer
2-Fits Bigger Drivers
3-I don't have a third. I have never found that the cars take too long to adjust, have never found them to be unreliable, or not relatively equal. they are perfectly easy t o drive as they are now. Gadgets will just add to the cost, are I don't think they help add much fun to an amateur series.



2. Assuming that the New Car will be better than the R/T in all of the areas you indicated were important to you, how much more (%) would you be willing to pay?
I would not want to pay more just for a new car. The price increases each year at the moment are already very high in my opinion, and SB should be able to get a new car without increasing the costs even more than they already do each year.

3. In regards to additional ‘features’ (Data Acquisition, Digital Dash, Shift Lights, Built-in Radio/Video etc) - do you prefer a low-cost/no-frills car? Or would you prefer to pay more, and get additional features that you’re interested in?
Low-cost and no frills. There are other high frill series out there like Star Mazda, etc, for people with loads of money. My racing is on a tight budget, and would end if prices increase much more.

4. What features above and beyond a ‘no-frills’ car are you most interested in? (see Surveys 1-7 for more features)
I think this was discussed very well by everyone in those surveys.

5. What would you consider to be an acceptable difference (%) in cost between a no-frills car, and the same car with the features that you’re interested in?
Since I am not interested in a high frills car I consider this question irrelevant for myself, as I would not want to pay anything more for a frills car.

6. Assuming that Skippy’s pricing using the New Car will fall within your parameters, would you be interested in racing more, less or the same? If applicable, how much more or less?
Would I be interested in racing more or less just because there is a new car? If that is the queston being asked, then my answer is that a new car will not affect my decision to race. My decision to race more or less is only effected by price. The price increase between the 2006 eastern series and the 2007 southern series was approximately 10%. I hope that there is no increase between the 2007 southern and 2007 eastern series when it kicks off in May, or thereabouts, 2007. In my opinion this is a very high increase. Gas prices have gone down since then. Of course there are other factors, such as insurance, salaries, and probably many others that I am not aware of. I still do not see why such a high increase is necessary.

7. Finally, what ideas would you suggest to control costs (car related only please)?
I suppose the biggest way to reduce costs would be to make the parts of the car as inexpensive as possible. Not very helpful I know, but without inside knowledge of the budget as it is now I can't really comment on how to make the costs of the car lower.


For me cost is the most important factor in my continuing to be able to race. This year, for me, a race weekend consisted of Thursday practice, Friday practice and the Sat & Sun races. Next year I will be dropping the Thursday practice because, in my opinion, a lapping day is now too expensive and not really worth the money. This results in a three day weekend costing about $3,600, at current prices. I am assuming that this stays constant through the 2007 eastern series. At a 10% yearly increase, if that is also constant, the price will be closing in on $4,000 in 2008, $4,500 in 2009 and $5,000 in 2010. At that point I would stop racing, as I think I would not be able to justify the expense any more. I also have no budget for crash damage. If I crash the car that means I don't race for a year. I have so far been lucky enough to avoid that over the past 5 years and hope to maintain that in the future.

Again, without having inside knowledge of SB budgets I don't know how to control costs. Perhaps it is not possible. However I hope there is a way to control the costs, and prevent them from following the same spiral as college tuitions or house prices where the amounts have got completely out of line with the rest of the economy. I would hate to see SB become a series of ten people who can afford to go racing all year long, or worse, for it to disappear completely.
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Old 11-26-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

First, I appreciate all the work that was put into this forum by Bobo and Sy. That said, there is too much being asked in this thread.

As for pricing, which I have been chomping at the bit to comment on, I'll share my thoughts about the issue in small doses.

1. THE SKIP BARBER PRICING MODEL DOES NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE UNDERLYING BUSINESS REQUIREMENTS OF SUPPORTING A CAPITAL INTENSIVE BUSINESS.
Charging on a race-by-race basis is an expense based business model. Skip Barber (race series, racing school, and corporate events) is a capital intensive business (cars, parts, facilities, race track leases, etc.). Leaving corporate subsidies (manufacturer sponsorships and corporate events) out of the picture for a moment, the pay-as-you-go model cannot support a substanable business in the longer term. Moreover, charging on an event-by-event basis, fosters a knee jerk management decision-making and short term business planning-both of which eventually lead to the same long term outcome.
The way to address the underlying capital requirements of running a business (model) such as Skip Barber is by getting access to low cost capital. There are several ways this can be accomplished, but one of the easiest ways is to attract "investors." In this case, us. Yes, you, me, and everyone else who wants to race. A simple version of this model (there are many) is the "country club" model. Joining a country club involves putting up a bond in addition to annual dues and fees (resturant, etc.). These bonds (the dollar amount which depends on the exclusivity of the "club") are serviced, like any loan, on a monthly basis. The benefit to the country club is the access to capital (the bond) and the benefit to the member is a lower barrier to entry to join (as opposed up front cash). Membership, in the case of Skip Barber, could be based on different levels (just like a country club) of participation that with it bring different priviledges. The most important element of this business model is that the bond is used to offset the tranactional charges to members (think green's fees). Without the bond, "playing" on weekends would be an otherwise very expensive proposition.
There are many other ways to accomplish the funding issues of capital intensive businesses, and the country club model is a good starting point for discussion. But starting the disccussion of how to build a sustainable business based on the price of a race weekend ignores the underlying, more strategic challenges that need to be addressed by our friends in Lakeville.

More to come...
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Last edited by macdod; 11-26-2006 at 04:24 PM.
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  #22  
Old 11-26-2006
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rgreist rgreist is offline
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

The issue of cost begs the question, what are we paying for? I'd argue the most important product Skip Barber can provide, safety aside, is equal cars. The testers do a praiseworthy job of equalizing the cars, but variance remains, and the difference between cars has grown since the advent of the RT 2000.

The disparity in car performance we now experience requires drivers to lobby for better cars. I don't like doing it, but I do, because I know I'll lose if I drive a car that's at the low end of the window. This reality gets away from one of Skip Barber's primary value propositions: rewarding racers who drive equal equipment faster and more cleverly than their competitors. Now the race series reward the fast, smartest drivers who are the best at lobbying for a good car. I can't see how that's too different from a series rewarding drivers who have the most money and can buy performance, something Skip Barber explicitly claims it doesn't do.

Three possible solutions, in order of increasing cost:

1) Force the drivers in each group to redraw cars after each session or day and allow ZERO car switching except for mechanical defects. The idea with the current system of drawing cars is that performances differences will be a wash over the course of a season. Variance doesn't even out, though, because each race weekend constitutes a new "game." And the usual suspects (myself included) size up the fleet and lobby for the best cars. Under this proposed solution, performance differences would be a wash.

2) Equip the RT fleet with an aero package that facilitates drafting. Two years ago at VIR, I drove an RT with a larger wickerbill on the rear wing and vented sidepods that drafted as well as or better than the school cars. I was out with my dad and Matt Franc, and I passed or was passed three times in one lap at VIR. All three of us lead at one time or another during the course of the lap. Drafting mutes differences in power and handling. The cars are never perfectly uniform and identical, but the effects of the air always are.

3) Build the new cars so they draft.

I realize I continue to harp on the issue of car equality, and some might consider this post an example of “thread-jacking,” but the equality of the race series has the potential to set Skip Barber apart from every other type of racing. As we learn to drive and get over the initial awe (and shock?) of simply being in a race car, many of us value the opportunity to race tough competitors in equal equipment above all else.
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  #23  
Old 11-26-2006
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chsutherland chsutherland is offline
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

I agree with Revere that car equality is paramount. Having a car that is equal makes your weekend seem worth the money. I would say that car equality and cost almost go hand in hand. I would hate to pay for a race weekend and then have a car that is DOP, or not have enough cars.
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  #24  
Old 11-27-2006
Martin Zimmerman Martin Zimmerman is offline
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

1. Excepting cost, please list (in order of priority) approximately 3 to 6 of the most important attributes you believe the new car needs to have in order to successfully replace the R/T. Some attribute examples: (please write-in or use any other attributes you value – don’t limit yourself to these):
Safer SAFER, of course!
Fits Bigger Drivers Nope, The car size is very accomodating
Quicker Size Adjustments
Easier to Equalize Yes
Sexier Not for me to decide, racing is sexy enough for me
Easier to Drive Harder is better
Faster Lap times are all relative
More Comfortable
New Features & Gadgets No simpler is better, I show up to race, not so my shift light comes on at the right time
Bigger Gas Tank/Longer Runs Yes, more is better
2. Assuming that the New Car will be better than the R/T in all of the areas you indicated were important to you, how much more (%) would you be willing to pay? 0% I am at my limit as far as my budget goes.

3. In regards to additional ‘features’ (Data Acquisition, Digital Dash, Shift Lights, Built-in Radio/Video etc) - do you prefer a low-cost/no-frills car? Or would you prefer to pay more, and get additional features that you’re interested in? Low cost-no frills cars are best, again we show up to RACE, not compare video's, lap time sheet comparison's

4. What features above and beyond a ‘no-frills’ car are you most interested in? (see Surveys 1-7 for more features) Safer is always better, I have to work on Monday Mornings

5. What would you consider to be an acceptable difference (%) in cost between a no-frills car, and the same car with the features that you’re interested in? 0%

6. Assuming that Skippy’s pricing using the New Car will fall within your parameters, would you be interested in racing more, less or the same? If applicable, how much more or less? More of course;

7. Finally, what ideas would you suggest to control costs (car related only please)? Simpler is best. A fast race car is usually very simple, less gauges, less input from the driver. The driver is only there to drive the car.
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  #25  
Old 11-27-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Sy, forgive me for saying this, BUT.. I think the original posts by Peter, Dom and CDH and others hit the nail on the head for me.

As an aside I would add the following thoughts...

I think the series is at a critical point as to deciding what it wants to be in the future. Most of us are answering as people who love the series as amateur racers and from the perspective that we want to see the series survive well into the future.

Despite all of its age the R/T 2000 has served us well and provides a great platform for relatively low cost, safe and fun racing. Most of the issues and complaints I have heard surround what seems to be problems with the cost of parts and crash damage, the apparent unreliability of lower cost parts that have been sourced in the last year or so, the ability to adequately address the Hans device with proper seatbelt configuration, and an adequate supply of equal tuned cars.

Budget is a concern for most of the active drivers I have listened to other than the fortunate few who have the resources to readily spend more as needed. I would surmise that many of these same drivers will move up to another series if they haven't already done so as their ability and interest goes higher. Additionally I know many more drivers that would enter the series or would do more if the cost were within their discretionary budget.

Seat time and cost for most are inversely proportional.

With all of that in order of most important to me are the following:

Safety
Equal Cars
Affordable
Well maintained ( not necessarily new)
Option to add some of my own equipment more easily ( like radio, Video etc)
Sexy is nice but as my eyesight goes it becomes less important and it certainly won't make me any faster...although I might smile alot more!

Thank you for doing this!
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  #26  
Old 11-27-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

1. Excepting cost, please list (in order of priority) approximately 3 to 6 of the most important attributes you believe the new car needs to have in order to successfully replace the R/T. Some attribute examples: (please write-in or use any other attributes you value – don’t limit yourself to these):
Safer - Not only should the cars be safer, but also better safety practices should be followed by all drivers (incl. HANS, arm restraints, helmet halo ...)

Easier to Equalize - I think Peter hit this on the head with better drafting. If the cars can't be matched closer in performance then other elements should be included to make the racing more competitive. If drafting will provide more passing and make the racing more exciting then it sounds to me like a win win.

Bigger Gas Tank/Longer Runs - What's not to like about this?

New Features & Gadgets - If they provide useful feedback and information that will make us better drivers (ability to read gauges, exit speeds...) then all for it. I think Video capabilities and Communications should be pre-rigged in the cars for those who want to use it (additional fee is ok for those who choose).

Sexier - I just want to go fast and as long as were moving forward I think that what we are racing is sexy enough, but I think that a sexier car will help attract new drivers to the series.

2. Assuming that the New Car will be better than the R/T in all of the areas you indicated were important to you, how much more (%) would you be willing to pay? 5-10% Max, but I would prefer no change. I wouldn't mind spending more if we were to get more seat time or some added value, but for a lateral move it doesn't seem justified to spend much more.

3. In regards to additional ‘features’ (Data Acquisition, Digital Dash, Shift Lights, Built-in Radio/Video etc) - do you prefer a low-cost/no-frills car? Or would you prefer to pay more, and get additional features that you’re interested in? I would like the option to pay when I choose - so cars should be hardwired - to use the service it would be additional $.

4. What features above and beyond a ‘no-frills’ car are you most interested in? (see Surveys 1-7 for more features) Safety, Data Acquisition, In Car Communications and Video.

5. What would you consider to be an acceptable difference (%) in cost between a no-frills car, and the same car with the features that you’re interested in? 2% + pay-per-use (i.e. $100 for video...)

6. Assuming that Skippy’s pricing using the New Car will fall within your parameters, would you be interested in racing more, less or the same? If applicable, how much more or less? Same

7. Finally, what ideas would you suggest to control costs (car related only please)? As long as it's competitive and we're all having fun? I don't have a good enough understanding of how the costs breakdown, so I will differ this to the experts.

Great job with the Survey Bobo, Sy and TJR.
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  #27  
Old 11-27-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Quote:
Originally Posted by LimeRockRacer
I think the series is at a critical point as to deciding what it wants to be in the future. Most of us are answering as people who love the series as amateur racers and from the perspective that we want to see the series survive well into the future.

Despite all of its age the R/T 2000 has served us well and provides a great platform for relatively low cost, safe and fun racing. Most of the issues and complaints I have heard surround what seems to be problems with the cost of parts and crash damage, the apparent unreliability of lower cost parts that have been sourced in the last year or so, the ability to adequately address the Hans device with proper seatbelt configuration, and an adequate supply of equal tuned cars.

I agree with LimeRockRacer. I've heard the existing wings described as "revenue enhancers" and I took that to be as more in the seduction sense than the crash parts sales. If we were all driving the no-wing 4-speed school cars would we pay more to rent the RT-2000's just for the wings and the sequential gearbox?
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  #28  
Old 11-27-2006
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John Greist John Greist is offline
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso
I agree with LimeRockRacer. I've heard the existing wings described as "revenue enhancers" and I took that to be as more in the seduction sense than the crash parts sales. If we were all driving the no-wing 4-speed school cars would we pay more to rent the RT-2000's just for the wings and the sequential gearbox?
Hell, I'd pay as much to race the school cars, and if we could get more laps for the same money, what a winner! More challenging, equal, fun and satisfying. And I bet we know which car costs more to maintain and when crashed.
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  #29  
Old 11-29-2006
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dalyduo dalyduo is offline
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

1. Excepting cost, please list (in order of priority) approximately 3 to 6 of the most important attributes you believe the new car needs to have in order to successfully replace the R/T.
- Safer
- More balanced handling
- Easier to equalize
- Faster seat and pedal adjustments
- Memory card data acquisition dash module that includes up-shift lights and an LED indicating current gear.
- Bigger Gas Tank/Longer Runs


2. Assuming that the New Car will be better than the R/T in all of the areas you indicated were important to you, how much more (%) would you be willing to pay?

In utopia the economy of brilliant design, clever construction and synergistic manufacture sponsorship will make the cost of building and repairing the new car so economical that the price will remain at or below current pricing. In reality I’d like as small an increase as possible as cost increases will always negatively affect my ability to play.

3. In regards to additional ‘features’ (Data Acquisition, Digital Dash, Shift Lights, Built-in Radio/Video etc) - do you prefer a low-cost/no-frills car? Or would you prefer to pay more, and get additional features that you’re interested in?

I’d prefer a bare bones low cost car with rentable add/on plug in modules that let those with the resources have data acquisition, video and radio at nominal a la carte’ fees. In my perfect world everyone get up-shift lights and current gear LEDs with the bare bones car.

4. What features above and beyond a ‘no-frills’ car are you most interested in?

Data acquisition, video and radio support

5. What would you consider to be an acceptable difference (%) in cost between a no-frills car, and the same car with the features that you’re interested in?

Don’t have a target percentage in mind but as small an increase as possible.

6. Assuming that Skippy’s pricing using the New Car will fall within your parameters, would you be interested in racing more, less or the same? If applicable, how much more or less?

Always want to race more when time and money permits.

7. Finally, what ideas would you suggest to control costs (car related only please)?

Use stock and/or standardized parts and materials wherever practical to keep the costs of building and rebuilding the cars low. Spend more time getting a smartly designed car right up front, so it pays off at the back end in lower operating and pricing costs.

The company reason to undertake this project is to increase customer enrollment in the racing school and race series while also increasing profit. A new car that performs better as a teaching tool and racecar than the R/T will certainly attract more customers, and a car costing less to manufacture and maintain than the R/T will add more profit. Having said that, Martin's point that manufacturer sponsorship for major car components is also a big part of determining target market, profit and end user pricing is also spot on.

Beyond the negotiation of manufacturer sponsorship, building this new car from scratch to serve the many masters of need we've discussed in these threads, at a reasonable price, is a tall order. You need unwavering long-range engineering and fiscal vision by experts who are also racers at heart. The result could catapult the race series and company forward in a quantum leap of success or sink it entirely.

The smarter Skippy is at engineering this new car to include the most innovative updates possible without pricing out long time loyal customers, the better off we all will be.

Neither ad nor promo dollars will ever create more powerful advocates for the company than long time loyal customers. If the new car through price or performance drives off those customers there is little chance they will return.

I align with PT in saying that as the cost goes up my racing will go down or elsewhere. As much as I love the competitors in the series and people at the company the fundamental component of that affection is the joy of sharing that special experience of driving the racecar. This is where I sincerely hope clever advance design and engineering produces an exciting end product we all can afford to race more often.

The new car should be as progressive as possible to maximize its practical service life.

It would be folly to go through this long expensive exercise and not wind up with a smart modern adaptable teaching racecar. I look forward to seeing the new car built, competing in it against all the old familiar usual suspects, and a huge crop of new ones.
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Last edited by dalyduo; 11-29-2006 at 09:52 AM.
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  #30  
Old 11-30-2006
Andrew Andrew is offline
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Safety should be an overwhelming factor in the new car, as we tend to make big mistakes.
1) The roll hoop should be much broader to keep the car from sinking into the gravel upon a rollover.
I know from first hand experience how deep the car can sink. I saw gravel at the top of my visor, meaning that my helmet was a couple of inches into the stuff, while my neck was bent over in an exteme position. I consider myself very lucky to be able to feed myself and get around without a wheelchair.
2) We need better protection from intrusion into the cockpit from any and all angles. I remember seeing Mark Martinez's helmet with the visor ripped off from the wheel of a car that T-boned him and hit him in the head. He also was lucky to walk away. I noticed he hasn't raced with us this past year.
3) Along with better upper side protection, which may block some vision to the sides, we should have mirrors that show a wider area to compensate for that.

As for any of the extra horns and whistles, I don't fell the need for any of it. I shift by ear and can pretty much learn where I'm slow by slightly pushing my limits until I scare myself, then wait until I'm comfortable at that point and then push it again.

I want to make a comment about the wings; if we have them, they should be functional and not for looks. SBRS would be a laughing stock if the put non-functional wings on a car just to intice new clients. I'd like to see a little more down force so we can experience more G-forces to better prepare us for the next rung in the ladder.

A 45 minute race sounds about right to me; 30 minutes doesn't allow you much time to be able to compensate for a mistake and an hour would be too long. We have problems getting all the groups run as it is.

As to cost, well no one wants to pay more and the cheaper it is , the more drivers SBRS can attract.
The best way to keep cost down with regard to the new car will be dependent on how SBRS finances the fleet and how long they believe they can amortize the loan; three years?, five years? or even seven? Can they take accelerated depreciation? It's their business model and I assume they know best what they need to do to control the cost. Everybody understands that less is better.
Let the chips fall where they may, and hopefully we'll still have a series.

The other thing is controlling crash damage and that rest with us. Curb your aggression and increase your awareness.
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  #31  
Old 11-30-2006
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LimeRockRacer LimeRockRacer is offline
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Great point about better mirrors Andrew. I could not agree more with most of your points.
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  #32  
Old 12-04-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Quote:
1. Excepting cost, please list (in order of priority) approximately 3 to 6 of the most important attributes you believe the new car needs to have in order to successfully replace the R/T.
Safer (Better cockpit intrusion protection, head protection), Quicker Size Adjustments, Easier and Cheaper to fix and maintain, Easier to Equalize (Car Equality is PARAMOUNT), Faster, Data acquisition, Bigger Gas Tank/Longer Runs (but this does slightly increase fire risk), Driver adjustable Brake bias

Quote:
2. Assuming that the New Car will be better than the R/T in all of the areas you indicated were important to you, how much more (%) would you be willing to pay?
5% at the MOST, but if Skippy does their job right and adheres to the philosophy of the new car, it should be "revenue neutral." If the price increases much more, you're gonna start losing customers. Skippy should work as hard as possible to keep the price the same and find new revenue from other sources, such as sponsors (see below)
Quote:
3. In regards to additional ‘features’ (Data Acquisition, Digital Dash, Shift Lights, Built-in Radio/Video etc) - do you prefer a low-cost/no-frills car? Or would you prefer to pay more, and get additional features that you’re interested in?
Low cost, no frills car with lap timing data and mid corner min speed at a minimum, and installed options for more complex data/video/comm for those who want to pay more
Quote:
4. What features above and beyond a ‘no-frills’ car are you most interested in? (see Surveys 1-7 for more features)
Data/video capability and hard-wired comm with push-to-talk. Also driver adjustable brake bias.
Quote:
5. What would you consider to be an acceptable difference (%) in cost between a no-frills car, and the same car with the features that you’re interested in?
10%

Quote:
6. Assuming that Skippy’s pricing using the New Car will fall within your parameters, would you be interested in racing more, less or the same? If applicable, how much more or less?
More. I'd try harder to do the entire series.
Quote:
7. Finally, what ideas would you suggest to control costs (car related only please)?
I'm going to reprise a bit of what I wrote on another thread here because I think it's relevant.

The challenge is that Skippy has TWO populations to cater to: amateur racers and those hoping to make it a profession. Whether it can successfully combine these missions will determine its survival.



I think the question of whether the new car will bring in more customers by being more appealing slightly misses the point. Abhi Ghatak was one of the main people involved in the development of the new car before he reluctantly left Skippy this summer, and we often discussed what he hoped to achieve with this paradigm shift. The priorities and needs driving the change as he expressed them were:
1) significant reduction in repair and maintenance time and therefore cost
2) quicker repair turnaround and therefore reduced vehicle downtime
3) greater and easier adjustabilty to the driver (e.g. pedal box)
4) the need to get Skippy out of the manufacturing game (the current car is hand-crafted by Skippy the old-fashioned way-- we should enjoy the experience while we can! A connection to all those FF racers of yore)
5) 2006 standards of safety (carbon-fibre tub, etc)



He felt the new car, if done right, would achieve these aims while being significantly more cost-effective than the current car despite the new materials, gizmos, etc. The sexiness was not a driving force but would be a by-product of the modern design and technology. If it sells seats, so much the better.

The car should utilize modular technology so that it is so much quicker and easier to maintain/repair that the costs saved in service man-hours, ie recurring expenses, more than compensates for any increase in materials, ie capital cost.

I think the new car is a necessary to modernize and improve the Skippy product, reduce cost and improve efficiency of delivery of the product, but will need to be a component of a larger corporate strategy and vision. Skippy needs to get MUCH more creative in terms of sponsorship partners-- one example would be to find partners to capitalize on the new interest in women entering racing at a young age a la Danica, and to create a new program around that, possibly,say partnering with someone like Lyn St. James.

Last edited by Slowhands; 12-04-2006 at 11:39 AM.
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  #33  
Old 12-04-2006
mgbcrusty mgbcrusty is offline
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

I am in agreement with the comments re 2 kinds of racers: young hope-2-b hotshoes and the rest of us who wanna race but probably dont want the considerable hassle of owning.

As someone (painfully) obviously in the latter category, I think that cost control is very important. Of course safety is paramount, and for me car equality is 2nd or 3rd, but cost is real, especially to me because having a good size group to compete with is an important part of the fun! I really dont care very much what we are driving, as long as the major differentiator is driver skill and experience, not the car.

Make it safe, make it fast (enough), make it competitive and try to keep the cost such that we've got some real people to have fun with!
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  #34  
Old 12-04-2006
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OLDMAN OLDMAN is offline
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Quote:
Originally Posted by chsutherland
For me, cost is a major factor to consider for racing. I like that skip offers you the chance to win some of your money back with racing credit.
Am I missing something?

OLDMAN
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  #35  
Old 12-04-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
...we should have mirrors that show a wider area...

...A 45 minute race sounds about right to me...

...increase your awareness...
In regards to Andrews comments above: Here's my keen observation: If we wind up with larger fuel cells that allow us to run an additional 15 - 20 minutes on a fuel load, that will translate in to about an additional 8 - 10 laps at the pointy end of the field on most tracks (except the 4 milers). This means that SOME of us will be seeing much more of you talented guys at the front than we are used to. We'll need better mirrors to stay out of the way. I always seem to have a problem with rear vision. If I get the mirrors adjusted so I can see the outside edge of each rear tire, then anything in the slipstream is out of sight - till they make the pop going into braking.
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  #36  
Old 12-04-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Lets all agree that paying MORE is out of the question! There are about a dozen classes of SCCA competition that offer comraderie, great tracks, and rent-a-rides and support easily obtainable in excellent, clean vehicles, both sedan and formula cars, that might then become a cheaper and more attractive alternative. No, you wouldn't have the instructors, but private coaching could be arranged. The damage waivers are perhaps less protective; seperate riders can be bought.

A much more expensive Skippy would force all but the most affluent participants to seriously consider other venues --a huge loss, as i feel its the new drivers and families flowing in at each event that makes the program viable and vibrant for the future.
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  #37  
Old 12-04-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Racer
A much more expensive Skippy would force all but the most affluent participants to seriously consider other venues --a huge loss, as i feel its the new drivers and families flowing in at each event that makes the program viable and vibrant for the future.
Absolutely. and as the fields get smaller the racing would get less fun and challenging, and you would have a domino effect and more people would leave
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  #38  
Old 12-04-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

In fact, D-sports racer is pretty darn sexy, fast as hell, and cost-effective rent a rides are all over the place. Its already on my list as a series i'd like to access. Ever seen an unhappy Radical pilot?
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  #39  
Old 12-04-2006
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chsutherland chsutherland is offline
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Am I confused or can you not win skippy credit if you win a championship, in either regional or national? I didn't want to complain a lot so i tried to say something positive. Did i hear a rumor you have a Cobra oldman?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLDMAN
Am I missing something?

OLDMAN
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  #40  
Old 12-04-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

This post is where I think I had the hardest time coming up with a coherant thought. I guess it all comes down to the drivers who enter the series. As far as I can see, we have two groups; Those on the wayup through the series and those who want a cost effective way to race, and find racing equal cars, with other crazy Walter Mittey types to be just the ticket.

This is for the Skippy Corp to decide.
Both camps want SAFETY, this is a given.
Both want bigger gas tanks, who doesn't want seat time
Both want a comfortable car(a nice seat would be nice, with some lateral support)
Both groups want a car that is easy to equalize.

Now we begin to separate.
The young up-and -comers want the high tech devices so they can be familier with these as they move up. My group of old dreamers would just be happy with a car that gives us a challenge and thrill.
The racers in training would want an adjustable car that drafts well, is faster,sexier,and has a lot of new features. Speaking for no one other than myself, I just want a reasonably quick car that requires my skills to be challenged and makes racing exciting.

Maybe skippy needs to evaluate what direction they want to go in.
Do they want to concentrate on the true up-and-comer? Or do they want to have a series for those boomers who want to get the feel of racing that they never had a chance to do back when the were young?
Can these two groups be served by the same car? Can these two groups ever get along? (just being funny)

Maybe the answer lies in having some of the high tech items listed as bolt on options so the Championship Guys can have them at their disposal at a higher cost.

I have every intention of racing a lot more in the near future( I am getting a huge raise in two years when my two young uns graduate from school) and I want a safe, reliable, qiuck, and comfortable car that Challenges me and my equalized friends.
My mission is to kick some ass, laugh about it, share stories, and make friends. I am a backer of the no frills car, but given the chance to race a 500hp car with every high tech item on it for $2900 per weekend; count me in!

This is the hardest question of the bunch
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  #41  
Old 12-04-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

The cars look great and do perform well. Sadly one radical driver lost his life at LRP last year when he was grouped with heavier street cars and ran up under the back of an Integra over the crest of the uphill.

Not connected to that particular tragic incident.

I think we tend to take the instructors for granted when they are, in fact, a very important part of the safety we all enjoy with Skippy racing.

The instructors catch and correct or weed out a fair amount of low percentage high risk behavior before it ends in expensive tears, and how many race series actually asses liability so that you pay a percentage of the damage based on an assessment of your responsibility for the contact?

Not opposed to other series but the Skippy cost benefits loom larger when you look closely at safety and crash costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Racer
In fact, D-sports racer is pretty darn sexy, fast as hell, and cost-effective rent a rides are all over the place. Its already on my list as a series i'd like to access. Ever seen an unhappy Radical pilot?
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  #42  
Old 12-04-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Quote:
Originally Posted by chsutherland
Am I confused or can you not win skippy credit if you win a championship, in either regional or national?
The Kids National Championship pays the champion $100K toward their next season's costs in another series and I believe there's money down through 5th. Each Regional Champion has gotten a race weekend for the last couple of years at least and there have been other Skippy $ for shoot out winners and for most improved category.

My big win was at the Sebring Shoot Out several years back when I won the Masters championship. I was clearly the best - also the worst, in fact the only Master entered and took home the blown up $5,000 Skippy dollar check. Also had a big crash, so the net was much smaller. Still the concept is positive and since we're all certifiable, concept is all we need. Think how hard we race for the podium trophies!

Last edited by dalyduo; 12-04-2006 at 10:31 PM. Reason: fixed the quote instructions
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  #43  
Old 12-04-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Racer
In fact, D-sports racer is pretty darn sexy, fast as hell, and cost-effective rent a rides are all over the place. Its already on my list as a series i'd like to access. Ever seen an unhappy Radical pilot?
Radicals are very neat racecars on their own merit. FWIW, they are also a steel tube space frame chassis, similar to the current RT, with lots of bodywork and downforce. I can't see that they would be any cheaper to repair after a crash. For my money, big downforce means much higher corner speeds and heavier crashes. Loose a wing on the current RT's and most of us won't know the difference. Loose the nose or barndoor on a Radical and things could go ugly early. Just my 2 cents.
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  #44  
Old 12-04-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Do the wings on the R/T really serve any purpose other than to increase the drag and the crash damage? I would love to know what the total cost of wing damage was for this past Eastern Series. I'll bet it was huge.

OLDMAN
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  #45  
Old 12-04-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLDMAN
Do the wings on the R/T really serve any purpose other than to increase the drag and the crash damage?
Others will have hard data, but I can testify that fast corners (Carousel and Kink at Road America) are harder when the wings are gone (e.g., school cars) or badly bent. Revere ran wide onto the grass after the downhill at Road Atlanta (at about 5200 in 5th) when his front wing fell off unbeknownst in turn 10.

RT-2000 wings do produce downforce, albeit not much, but noticeable in fast corners - also get a touch of aero push in the Carousel and Kink at Road America when tucked up behind another fast car.

Last edited by dalyduo; 12-04-2006 at 10:37 PM. Reason: fixed the quote instructions
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  #46  
Old 12-05-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

I feel that the new cars should have data acquisition in each car, camera on each car (then video footage can be used in determining crash damage fault amounts, four off calls, etc.), and better performance. In my opinion, cost can go up a little in exchange for these new features.
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  #47  
Old 12-05-2006
andy andy is offline
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

I remember weekends with over 100 drivers....
New car??
I don't get it.
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  #48  
Old 12-05-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

Andy,

When was the last 100 driver weekend you remember and what don't you get?
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
I remember weekends with over 100 drivers....
New car??
I don't get it.
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  #49  
Old 12-06-2006
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

2. Assuming that the New Car will be better than the R/T in all of the areas you indicated were important to you, how much more (%) would you be willing to pay?

One of the things that has only been addressed in part is "If there were a bigger gas tank, would people be willing to pay much more (%) for longer races / track time"?

I would be willing to pay at least $100-200 more per race for a 40-45 minute race versus the current ~30. I bring this up b/c more then the other "bells and whistles", this is something that I would not only be happy to add, but happy to pay for. I don't fully understand the additional costs for a longer race, but I would imagine that incrementaly it gets less expensive the longer the run.

I don't know the practicality, but maybe in 3-4 race group weekends, there could be a long race groups and a short race groups.

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  #50  
Old 12-06-2006
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Slowhands Slowhands is offline
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Re: Skippy Components Survey #8 of 8 - COST

I second the gman on his paying slightly more for longer race ideas. A longer race gives you more of a chance to try to recover from bonehead mistakes like I make. There's also more endurance and strategery involved and they're just more fun.
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