Skippy Prototype Car ('05-'07): Skippy Components Survey #5 of 8 - IN-CAR RADIO

[Gerardo]

Welcome to the New Skippy Car Components Survey #5 of 8, presented by Sy and myself. This week's topic is IN-CAR RADIO. Let's get right to it.

As with previous solicitations for feedback, lets keep a nice balance of positive and negative comments. Thanks so much!


2007 Skippy Car Survey #5 of 8 - IN-CAR RADIO

1. Would you like to listen to the instructor open radio commentary while you practice or race during a race weekend?

2. Would you like to have an exclusive coach talking on a private channel to you during a race?

3. Would you prefer to own your radios, or would you prefer to rent?

4. What should be included in the base price, and what should be optional at additional cost?

5. Any other comments?

This thread will be closed to further replies just before midnight on Monday, October 30th. The next topic will then be introduced.

Thanks again!

[KingTito]

1. Would you like to listen to the instructor open radio commentary while you practice or race during a race weekend?

Yes, but only during practice. I am not at the level where I think I could handle the potential distraction of a radio during a race. I believe that this could be very helpful during practice.

2. Would you like to have an exclusive coach talking on a private channel to you during a race?

No. First of all, the "exclusive coach" would only be able to see one corner. So, I am not sure how much value this would add during a race. It seems as though more valuable to listen to all of the corner chatter as you would get coverage from all of the corners. Personally, as I indicate above, I'm not sure I could handle it. Also, my skin is not thick enough to deal with "that Reddy guy needs to stick to watching racing on TV" commentary.

3. Would you prefer to own your radios, or would you prefer to rent?

Rent.

4. Do you want any of the above items to be Optional?

I like the notion of having radio during practice. Also, even if I didn't select the "coach" option for races, would it be valuable to have a one-way race control radio in all cars to communicate cautions, other race control instruction etc.?

5. Any other comments?

[Dom Bastien]

Radio communication is a huge plus for me. IMHO, the important thing is not so much to what end it's used[listen to instructor chatter, or to a coach telling you there is a car length available on braking in turn 1, or whatever] but rather having the radio system set-up as an integral part of the car. So, all you have to do is plug in and you've got radio communication instead of having to go through this unbelievable set-up rigmarole that we have now [and save ourselves from lugging all that equipment]. I am totally ignorant of those things [whenever I need help in switching something on, I call Sy] but I assume that it can be done cost effectively. The driver would only need to have his helmet wired and of course having his checkbook ready to fork over a few dineros to SBRS.

I would make the same general comment about video.

[rf360m]

1. Would you like to listen to the instructor open radio commentary while you practice or race during a race weekend?
There could be potential benefits to this, such as being aware that the pace care is about to pull off, or that an incident has occured at corner one. However, I think the instructors, and anyone else on the radio would then have to treat it as a pit-to-car radio, and not include any extraneous information. As I don't think this will happen I'm not sure if this is a good idea. Perhaps if there were two channels, one with a race commentary, and another with just important info. But then what is important info? For me, all I want to know is what position I am in, what the gap to the guy behind me is, an what the gap to the guy ahead is, and if there is an incident ono track. I'm not sure if this is possible to do for all cars. You'd really need your own pit crew.

2. Would you like to have an exclusive coach talking on a private channel to you during a race?
The only way I can see this as useful is if they are just giving me info like my current position, gap to guy ahead and behind, and any relevant info regarding track conditions. Would there be enough instructors to talk like this to all drivers on the field?

3. Would you prefer to own your radios, or would you prefer to rent?
Right now people are using the raceiver radios and they seem to work quite well for them. Therefore I think having your own works well and allows the driver to decide on whether or not they want the distraction, and the additional cost.

4. What should be included in the base price, and what should be optional at additional cost?
If it raises the cost of the race weekend, practice day or other activity then I do not think it is worth it.

5. Any other comments?
Overall, I don't think it would be that useful. It may be fun to hear it once or twice though.

[AlDelattre]

My 2 cents

1. Would you like to listen to the instructor open radio commentary while you practice or race during a race weekend?

Yes - I do it today. I ended up buying a good set of custom ear buds (which I use away from the track, too) and initially had a Raceiver (not good) and now a scanner. It gives you a heads up on what's going on - and in my case, I get good "constructive critique" during the session (race or otherwise) when the instructors 1) have time and 2) know I'm listening. It's not distracting to me...

2. Would you like to have an exclusive coach talking on a private channel to you during a race?

Yes, potentially. Not sure a stationary spotter at start/finish would be helpful for me at this point, but would make it a "for-pay" option.

3. Would you prefer to own your radios, or would you prefer to rent?

Would love to rent - so the radios are pre-tuned, etc. Would save a lot of inter-session hassles.....drivers bring their headset (whatever kind) and umbilical and plug in. Would suggest this being a RECEIVE ONLY to keep it simple.

4. What should be included in the base price, and what should be optional at additional cost?

Renting a radio? You can rent from one of the "racing radio shops" for $20 a weekend. That's about fair.

Optional costs are coaching (exclusive or group) or use of radios for lead-follow and/or computer car, etc.

5. Any other comments?

In a strange way, this might actually HELP alleviate some of the confusion on the grid, during a FCY, etc - esp with the Sportsman group (i.e me) - can understand the chatter factor, maybe just dedicate a "quiet channel" for Nick to yell at all us dumb-asses when required.

[dlippert]

I think the radio shoud be built into the car and should be an optional service with 2 plans. First, one could plug into the radio and get the race chatter that one now gets on the Raceiver or alternatively, one could contract with an instructor one-on-one coaching.

I personally find listening to the overall race chatter to be distracting, though way better than no radio at all. I think the one-on-one is quite valuable.

[Moxie]

1. Would you like to listen to the instructor open radio commentary while you practice or race during a race weekend? No, too distracting. Too much commentary about things happening far away from where you are on the track and way too much side-splittingly funny ad libs. I can't drive and laugh at the same time.

2. Would you like to have an exclusive coach talking on a private channel to you during a race? Yes, absolutely.

3. Would you prefer to own your radios, or would you prefer to rent? Obviously, it depends on cost. If SBRS recommends a particular radio set-up at reasonable cost I'd probably buy one.

4. What should be included in the base price, and what should be optional at additional cost? 1-on-1 instructor advice during a session should be at a fixed cost. Radio rental should be extra for those who don't have their own set-up.

5. Any other comments? I've done 1-on-1 radio during one race and found it extremely valuable.

[jeffrey Pietz]

The car radios should be in the cars or at least easily insertable into a holder requiring the driver to not have to do more than plug in a line from the helmet. A table loaded with scanners on chargers that you can grab in the pits and insert into the car would be a great benefit for safety alone. If for some reason you miss a caution flag it could be your last. Race control gets angry when we ignore or miss a flag but flags are a lousy way to communicate. That's why Alexander Graham Bell went to the telephone.

Listen only radios would be a minimum from a safety point of view. Everyone on a two way on the same channel would make for audio chaos. As for coaching it might be a good teaching tool like lead follow etc but should be optional. Are there enough channels and coaches that we could accomodate a two way for every driver for every race? I guess if they can do it at Indy Skippy could do it but the logisitics seem like a potential nightmare. Perhaps if they got an idependent contractor to provide the service skippy could try it out without having to take the heat for the inevitable "I had a bad race because skippy gave me a bad radio" complaint.

I like the arrive and drive aspect of skippy and the less stuff I have to bring to a race the better. I would be happy to pay extra to have a radio in my car. If folks want it to be an add on to the base price then fine with me. The race chatter from the instructor crew is not only great entertainment but helpful to make drivers aware of track conditions, whether the green is going down on this pass on the full course yellow, how many laps to go etc. Just bill for a one way scanner radio that I can plug in and I will gladly pay. If you want to offer an optional two way as an add on fine. Instructor time we can also add on just like we do with other coaching programs. But a scanner should be a minimum.

[birkmama]

The core benefits of a radio as opposed to a flag shine more on longer races. It could be entertaining at times to listen to race chatter but I do not think it does add immediate value to the session.

I like the idea of a pre fit mold/insert for scanners so that people can opt in if they like audio support.

It should not be mandatory since wiring helmets etc will still stay within the responsibility of the individual driver and thus make it hard to police.

I do think that an exclusive coach that listens to race chatter and filters what is relevant to you makes sense. It can also work as a motivation and adds entertainment to driving a car - I guess that is why they invented pre sets in road car radios including the off button.

Keep em optional.

[PT Cruiser]

1. Would you like to listen to the instructor open radio commentary while you practice or race during a race weekend?

Only in limited circumstances. In general, I think the instructor channel would be WAY too much distracting chatter. But might want to listen in during qualifying sessions to keep tabs on my standing w/respect to the times being set by other drivers.

2. Would you like to have an exclusive coach talking on a private channel to you during a race?

If this were free, I would give it a try. But this option has been available in the Master's National for about a year now, and I've never bothered to try it because I don't think the extra couple of hundred bucks is worth it. I'd rather blow my budget on an extra practice or a memorial.

3. Would you prefer to own your radios, or would you prefer to rent?

Rentals should be available, but SBRS should also provide info on suitable make and models so drivers who expect to use this service regularly can buy their own.

4. What should be included in the base price, and what should be optional at additional cost?

Base Price: A slot in the car where a driver can insert his/her rental or private radio without having to go nuts with the duct tape each time they get in the car.

Added cost: Rental Radios. Private radio coaching.

[dalyduo]

I've got too many voices in my head already and really don't need any more while driving...

However, for those masterful at multi-tasking there should be a holder for a scanner so you can listen to race chatter in one ear, a second holder for a two way radio so you can listen and talk to your instructor/coach in the other ear and a third holder for your R/C plane controller. (MHP would only need the R/C controller holder as he can create both race chatter and instructor/coach feedback in his head already...) And finally an iPod holder so you can have your own music or motivational mantras overlayed in the background while you race.

Kidding aside... Having a radio holder is a great idea but something adjustable that will hold a range of sizes as not all radios are the same size. I'd also love to have it safely positioned in the cockpit so the on/off volume control could be easily adjusted while driving. Selective use of a radio/scanner would be a very good thing. (At least that's what "Martha" says)

[OLDMAN]

As long as its use adds to the cost of race weekend I'm all for it.

In 1969 I graduated college and got my first job. Everyday I hopped into my 1962 Fairlane and went to work. The car had a 3 speed transmission, an AM radio (playing all the music I loved), 4 bias tires on stamped steel wheels and a heater. The trip took me 15 minutes.

Today I got into my 2005 Focus. It has a 5 speed transmission, an AM/FM/CD player (playing all the music I don't love), radial tires on aluminum wheels, air conditioning, cruise control and power everything. the trip took me 35 minutes.

Thank heavens for progress!

OLDMAN

[Kasey]

Unless you want two-way communication which requires the hardwiring of a push-to-talk button, etc... The Raceceiver that several of us have been using this season works fine for all the needs previously mentioned. You can program it to hundreds of frequencies (race chatter or your spotter) and has volume control in the headphone wire. Hang it around your neck and tuck inside your race suit. Cost is about $250.

How much conversation do you really need to have during a sprint race? If you have to ask questions during lapping or practice, just pit for 30 seconds.

[cdh]

Originally Posted by OLDMAN

As long as its use adds to the cost of race weekend I'm all for it. OLDMAN

Bob, your posts are so much funnier these days, not sure why tho......

[cdh]

Hey Oldman, how would these #'s change if you were driving your Cobra? Hmmmm, a newer version of an old classic, def a lot faster than the Focus or Fairlane, hmmm

Originally Posted by OLDMAN

As long as its use adds to the cost of race weekend I'm all for it.

In 1969 I graduated college and got my first job. Everyday I hopped into my 1962 Fairlane and went to work. The car had a 3 speed transmission, an AM radio (playing all the music I loved), 4 bias tires on stamped steel wheels and a heater. The trip took me 15 minutes.

Today I got into my 2005 Focus. It has a 5 speed transmission, an AM/FM/CD player (playing all the music I don't love), radial tires on aluminum wheels, air conditioning, cruise control and power everything. the trip took me 35 minutes.

Thank heavens for progress!

OLDMAN

OK, OK, enuf of this thread hijacking, back to radios

[Tom jr]

1) yes, I have raceciever on all my sessions now, (information is the most important commodity, Michael Douglas movie "Wall Street")
I love information and want to know whats going on as its going on, accidents, yellow flags.
I am sure its different for different people as some may be distracted and affect their performance, thats not the case for me.

2) I have done one on one coaching first time at Lime Rock and its extremly valuable, yes I would like to have that service. Thats information combined with coaching you thru the race and helping you with your craft by someone with LOTS of experience.

3)Raceciever works perfect for listening to instructors, you pay 240.00 once. But if to be offered to all as an option then having it buit into the system would seem practical.

4)Price I believe should be optional as many wont even want it and if its built into the base cost they would be paying for it and not using it.

[Vin]

Personally, I don't think Radios are that useful. For beginners, it's too much of a distraction. I've sat passenger to teach drivers in touring cars before (One of the SCARIEST things I've done!) and everything I say just goes in one ear, and out the other.

For experienced drivers, I think they should be able to find out for themselves how well they are driving, just by feel and RPM. And for a 30min race, I don't think it's necessary.

Then again, if people want it, give it to them!!

My opinion, radios for sprint races are as useful as cup holders and ash trays!
Here's a picture of the latest Formula Renault modification we are working on getting approved.

Have a happy. .
Vinay

[AlDelattre]

Hey, along this thread, I have some NEW input...

At the Miller Western Series opener, I "opted in" to a new race-day program, "Radio Coaching", and I had the benefit of 2-way comms in my races with Rob Slonaker.

First off, I'm sure everyone knows and acknowledges that Rob is a SUPERB coach, let alone a great guy

The program is that they will either use your own, or "lend you" a 2-way system for radio comms during the race. Price is $150/per.

I have to say - in spite of fears of distraction....that most/all of us have a little voice in our heads telling/reminding us about turn-in, apex, on-the-gas, shift points, etc - in this case, I had the dulcet tones of Mr Rob in my brain.

It paid off....In my first race, I had to start DFL and I had a GREAT race - I killed a second off my time just based on his "live coaching" and then we picked off quite a few cars with a "NASCAR-like" spotter....

Second race, was even better, though "user error" on my part led to, er, some "gravel in the cockpit".

The setup Rob used was easy -took about 10mins to setup in the current cars - and I found it WELL worth the money and hassle (there was none). I'd encourage EVERYONE to try this - it was NOT a distraction, Rob did a superb job of helping me get faster and more competitive.

Thanks for listening....(pun intended)

[gman]

1. Would you like to listen to the instructor open radio commentary while you practice or race during a race weekend?
Yes - Used both a raciever and a scanner at Miller Motorsports this weekend. I could have done w/out the astronomer comments - but overall found it to be very useful. Setting up the scanner was a hassle b/c it was difficult to mount and set up w/out additional help. Once mounted and set up, all I could hear was the radio and couldn't easily communicate w/ the mechanics, pit coordinators, etc.
I found the raceiver much easier to use (ended up only using in one ear so I could hear the people talking to me) but ran into problems at different sections of the track picking up signal from the instructors.
I think there is tremendous benefit to having the option to use this. I found the wires and harness to be cumbersome; however, if they were to be permanetly wired this could easily be resolved.

2. Would you like to have an exclusive coach talking on a private channel to you during a race?
Yes I would like it, but I would probably rather spend my money on another activity like additional lapping... If I were running more competitively it would be a different story.

3. Would you prefer to own your radios, or would you prefer to rent?
Either or.

4. What should be included in the base price, and what should be optional at additional cost?
Lapping and qualifying (improve lap times) feedback should be in the base and should provide similar feedback to what is given at the end of a session. Individual Race feedback/coaching (race strategy) should be additional. The question that I would have is how 15 people could get feedback on 1 channel during a qualifying or lapping session? Logistically, how could the intstructors provide feedback to individuals' real-time while still watching the other drivers? I have had discussions with a couple of radio suppliers and they are very restrictive about the # of frequency's they give out.

5. Any other comments?
A lot of people mention the distraction they hear on the radio. I found that when things get intense I tune it out . I'm sure if I had a private channel it would be a different story.

I would like to see some standard way to incorporate communications. It may not be for everyone, but for those who choose to - standardizing it and making it easier for the drivers would be a great benefit.

[Gerardo]

This post will close this thread.

Thank you all for posting your comments about In-Car Radio. Here is a brief summary of your thoughts.

1. Opinions on the usefulness of in-car radio are mixed. Some like it a lot, some see no real need. Some out there have tried it, while others have not yet tried. Clearly, many may not have a strong opinion until they try it.

2. Some mentioned the possibility of distraction from in-car radio, but most agreed it isn't an issue for drivers with more experience, or for drivers who can tune it out when they are too busy to listen.

3. Some asked if radio wiring could be integrated into the car to allow for easy attachment of personal or rented radios. Currently adding a radio to the car requires custom taping and/or zip ties, adding to the time needed to get ready for a session or race.

4. Comments were mixed about owning or renting radios, but plenty of votes for both.


Overall, not as many responses as the other surveys, but that may correspond to the numbers of people who have tried in-car radio at this level, which is probably a small percentage of the customer base.

Thanks again! Stay tuned for Survey # 6 of 8.