A girl needs help!!! [on Heel/Toe & Double-Clutch Technique]
Next Sun. I am trying a 1/2 day racing at Bertil Roos. This is something I wanted to try for a while but reading the manual I am getting nervous. The whole down shifting thing is somewhat confusing. Is it easy to catch on? Any advice would be great. Please help!
Jessica |
Re: A girl needs help!!!
i am not sure as to what style gearboxes Bertil Roos uses, so I can not give any good information. However, some advice I can give is go to Skip Barber :bowdown::mdrmed:
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Re: A girl needs help!!!
Hi,
It's scandia f2000, 4cylinder, O.H.C engine & 4 speed hewland transmission. |
Re: A girl needs help!!!
Jessica, there are two new downshifting techniques that you will have to learn about to best your fellow students. Because the Hewland transmission has a 'non-syncromesh' transmission (more on that later), you will need to 'double-clutch' on downshifts. The second new technique is called 'Heel and Toe', and you'll need that to able to complete your downshifts smoothly while applying the brakes at the same time. There are some well presented tutorials on Wikipedia that describe both, and if you can get a chance to practice them before your school, you will have a nice jump start on your fellow classmates.
Here they are: Quote:
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Re: A girl needs help!!!
Thank you! I will practice on my Audi. Hope I don't hurt it!
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Re: A girl needs help!!!
I suggest that you try to learn both techniques separately at first. When you are able to do a double clutch quickly and accurately, you can start blending the two techniques together. So at first, do your heel-toes with a regular single clutch.
BTW, there's a good set of diagrams on turnfast.com that visually explain the heel-toe technique: http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving...eetoestep1.gif The downshift begins with a full throttle acceleration towards a corner. http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving...eetoestep2.gif Lift the right foot from the gas pedal and press the brake pedal. http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving...etoestep34.gif Just before the braking is done, the left foot depresses the clutch pedal. The right hand begins the downshift. The right foot is still applying, but easing up on the brake pressure as the car approaches the turn-in, then the foot rotates so the heel is above the corner of the gas pedal. As the shift passes through neutral, the right heel gives a quick push of the gas pedal to rev the engine quickly (the ball of the foot is still on the brake easing up even more). http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving...eetoestep5.gif The left foot releases the clutch, the right foot rotates off the gas. Done correctly the RPMs generated by the throttle blip above matches the RPMs needed, and as the clutch is released the engine engages smoothly with the current wheel speed. There should be no forward or braking lurch when the clutch is let go. http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving...eetoestep6.gif The right foot completes the braking with a smooth release. http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving...eetoestep7.gif The right foot moves over to the gas pedal to assume the normal position at first only to maintain the pressure needed to sustain the vehicle speed throught the first part of the corner. Then pressure is gradually applied to accelerate out of the turn. |
Re: A girl needs help!!!
Nicely done gentlemen. :r:
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Re: A girl needs help!!!
Scatcat,
Dont get nervous about it. I recommend buying a copy of the Skip Barber "Going Faster", which is pretty much the college text book of the Skip Barber school, and I had read the book cover to cover before I did my three day and felt fine; it goes over double clutching as well. Double clutching is easier than it sounds so dont worry. The Scandia F2000 is a fun car to drive as well, I sure loved it. If the instructor 'Steve' is there, skinny with curly black hair, make sure and tell him Thomas from VIR 2 day comp says hello. |
Re: A girl needs help!!!
Jessica,
All the above is great information. I would add to allow plenty of time (i.e. brake early) approaching the corner to perform this new technique. Once your hands & feet have learned the timing & motions it is then much easier to condense the brake zone and still accomplish all you need to before the turn. Meaning be in gear before you turn. The most common mistake early on is to brake to late and not have enough time for the technique which leads to drama. So...here you go. Brake and continue to brake, Clutch IN, Neutral, Clutch Out, Blip throtle (Heel & toe) Clutch IN, Downshift, Clutch Out, ...continue Braking the entire time If you can commit this "diddy" to memory and practice it as slowly as a good Southerner would say it, you will be ahead of the curve in your school. Good luck, Jim Pace |
Re: A girl needs help!!!
Thank you all for your help. I knew I came to the right place. Thomas, if Steve is there I'll tell him you said, "hello".
Jessica |
Re: A girl needs help!!!
Hi guys,
Went out practicing for a little bit. A couple of questions (sorry if I should know the answers). On the scandia f2000 are the gas & brake even height to do heel toe? Kinda hard to try in my car but I am trying to at least get the method down. Should I be light, medium or hard on brake? Blip throtle just means gas and brake ie heel toe. Once again, thank you for the responses they have been very helpful. Still a little anxious that I am not going to catch on but I am sure the teachers there are very good. I'll let you all know how I do. Jessica |
Re: A girl needs help!!!
jessica, the f2000 car has perfect pedal arrangement for heel-toeing, and the seat can be adjusted as well. It is a perfect car, wonderfully balanced at the limit. You should always brake at 100%, unless you are trail braking, which is not what they teach at BR. At BR, they teach, full brakes, full gas, full time, which is good for only SOME corners. I personally found I dont think I was ususing 100% of the cars braking capability, and it can take a lot.....brake hard.
Another problem I had was the 2-3 upshift, i lost the lead in the 2-day race by sticking it in 1st. You cannot go diagonally, it must be forward-over-forward. Other than that, upshifts are as quick as you can stab the clutch and move the gear lever. I loved the car, i loved the school..have fun. Any questions, just pm me. thomas |
Re: A girl needs help!!!
Jessica,
The pedals in the f2000 should be acceptable for "heel & toe". The idea is initially the brake pedal is closer to you than the gas pedal so when the brake pedal moves down under the force of your foot the brake is now closer to the gas pedal which allows you to rev the engine (known as a blip) with the gas pedal while holding steady pressure on the brake pedal. Again you should try this technique while braking early with lite pressure to give your self time to get it done. PRINT the diagram posted earlier regarding placement of the feet on the pedals at each step. PRINT the simple version of the steps: BRAKE-CLUTCH IN-NEUTRAL-CLUTCH OUT-BLIP-CLUTCH IN-DOWNSHIFT-CLUTCH OUT! Sit and practice moving your feet and hands to the above. (A chair works fine, car is good, racecar is best but expensive). Do this slowly, reading it while you go through the motions. Just like learning to drive the upshifting part of a stick shift for the first time it takes practice doing it correctly. Once you have the motions it will become much more natural. ***Always good to practice in someone elses' car*** JP |
Re: A girl needs help!!!
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Re: A girl needs help!!!
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Most road cars are not well set up for heel toe downshifting. When you first get in the F2000, it will feel like you have no room to move your feet at all. But eventually, you'll find that the confined spacing of the pedals is actually a big advantage when it comes to heel toeing. One other note. Sy's diagrams suggest that the gas pedal is actual depressed by the heel of the right foot. In my experience, one actually uses the right side of the foot, about a third of the way down from the toes, and just kind of roll the foot quickly onto the gas to get the blip. At first it is tricky pulling off this motion without altering pressure on the brake pressure, but after some practice it becomes completely automatic. Good luck, and enjoy the school. |
Re: A girl needs help!!!
Hello,
I am glad the advice is still rolling in. Thanks Jim, little diddy has come in handy. The most I can do is sit in my chair and practice and hope that it comes together for me on the track. |
Re: A girl needs help!!!
The whole heel and toe, and double clutching thing is so much like dancing. At first it seems so foreign and then you will drive your road car the same way. This is much like riding a bike, you just want to keep it going ang going
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Re: A girl needs help!!!
So ScatCat, what happened?
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Re: A girl needs help!!!
Hi guys :wave: ,
Thank you to all of you who responded. Your advice worked wonders. It was nice to have a place to vent my worries. Enough girlie talk. That was the best freaking thing I have ever done! My face hurts from smiling. I did great and had a blast. Man, I wish I was rich! :rotflmao: :eilims: |
Re: A girl needs help!!!
That was the best freaking thing I have ever done! My face hurts from smiling. I did great and had a blast. Man, I wish I was rich!
:rotflmao: :eilims:[/quote] One Skip Barber racer raised money for racing by robbing a bank. Worked for a while, but not recommended. |
Re: A girl needs help!!!
You have officially been bitten and are terminally afflicted with racing in your blood. Congrats!
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Re: A girl needs help!!! [on Heel/Toe & Double-Clutch Technique]
If you own a standard transmission car as your daily driver you can easily teach your self the basics of heal/toe downshifting. It dosent even have to be under hard breaking to learn. Then you can take what you practiced over and over and put it into use in a race car.
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Re: A girl needs help!!! [on Heel/Toe & Double-Clutch Technique]
When I teach students how to Heal and Toe in Formula Campus, I only teach them to single clutch. I'd say you don't need to double clutch in modern cars unless you are bored. Actually, you don't really even need to use the clutch, but that comes later. One of the Formula Renault racing schools here only teaches Left Foot Braking since it takes too much time to teach Heal Toe Downshifts! Of course the Formula Renault as a bullet proof gear box.
I teach how to Heal and Toe in 3 Simple Steps (easier said than done I know)! 1 - Brake Hard 2 - Left Foot = Push Clutch Right Foot = Continue Braking and Blip Throttle Right Hand = Down Shift One Gear (All three things done at the same time) 3 - Release all except Brake. Continue Braking. Go back to Step 2 if you need to downshift another gear. Step 2 and the "Release" is done very quick. Step 1 is done for some time, as you need to slow the car down before down shifting. The hardest part I see for the students is maintaining the Brake Pressure during Step 2 and on to Step 3. Next lesson, forget the clutch!! Of course, make sure you have a fat wallet just in case you make a little mistake!! Have a happy. . . Vinay |
Re: A girl needs help!!! [on Heel/Toe & Double-Clutch Technique]
Vinay is right that the clutch isn't needed in a car like FRenault or F3 (even FBMW, although I have heard of some people using the clutch for downshifts to make the car last the season.) However, for Skip Barber, or Bertil Roos, the car's probably need the clutch. I would recommend Vinay's method of single-clutch-down-a-gear-while-blipping (did you catch that) method. I've never used double clutching in a race car.
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